i mean, it's all very well, sir robert buckland coming up with this now.ean, he was justice secretary when these rules came in and was in the government that suggested it would be a good idea to find people sitting on a park bench trying to enjoy a socially distanced coffee. >> yeah. i mean, the truth is, this , this went wrong on day this, this went wrong on day one. i mean, you may not remember or your viewers may not remember, but on march 23rd, i think 2021, it was the, the, the government brought to the house of commons a bill they put through in one day, an emergency bill to give all those powers to the government without parliament being able to interfere. ridiculous really, because we already had a thing called a civil contingency bill, which spent a year getting right, a decade or so earlier. but nevertheless, they did that. i think i was the only person to object at the time, even even labour accepted it, even the opposition accepted . and, it was opposition accepted. and, it was pretty obvious from the beginning it was going to go wrong. and we

i think this is, this is really good from from robert buckland.as a unique time and there were unique laws put in place. and it was also really difficult to challenge these fixed penalty notices. i remember getting a call from a solicitor right at the start of the of the pandemic saying, look , i've had a few people, got a few clients and they've got these fixed penalty notices. they say they say they were, you know, unfair or unlawfully imposed . and what do you think imposed. and what do you think we should do? and i actually said, look, you're better off paying said, look, you're better off paying the fine if you try and fight this in court. even if i were to act for you pro bono, you're going to spend more on court fees than it would cost you in the in the fine. so >> so the principle, though, sam? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> oh, absolutely. but the but you know, the problem is if you lose on that principle then you've got a criminal record for , for a long time. and that's these 29,000 people. >> can i be clear here? are they criminals or is it a cr

yeah. >> robert buckland, what about you?s suggest he won a points victory, but do you think it makes any difference to how people will vote? or have they already made their minds up? >> no, i think i used to say that election campaigns were very much signed, sealed and delivered before they began. but then a few more recent elections taught me otherwise. we can all remember. i agree with nick back in 2010 and the impact that that debate had . of course, as gloria debate had. of course, as gloria says, it was, it was the shock of the new as well. but then 2017, you know, tories 20 points ahead at the beginning . we all ahead at the beginning. we all know where that ended up. so campaigns do matter. i think that the debate of itself isn't necessarily a game changer. it certainly hasn't done rishi any harm, by the way. i think it's helped him and there'll be a spnng helped him and there'll be a spring in his step today with justification. but i think that it's going to require more. and i think looking at the manifesto , the of

the ex—justice secretary, sir robert buckland . so he oversaw robert buckland.he oversaw the courts during the pandemic. so oversaw a lot of people getting arrested for covid related offences . yeah. and he related offences. yeah. and he says there should be an amnesty. we should just want to wipe the slate clean for more than 29,000 people who are given criminal convictions for breaking covid rules, i'd say give them a medal as well for daring to do the sensible thing and break the rules. the funny thing is they should. i absolutely agree, they should. i absolutely agree, they should give them amnesty. they should give them amnesty. they should have done it 20 years ago and it would have killed partygate as well, wouldn't it? yeah. do you know what i mean? 20 years i would have been two years ago. rather in 2020. they should have done it immediately. as soon as the partygate stuff came out, they should have done it. they should have just gone to know what it was all nonsense. and we apologise. yeah, they should have panicked because of partygate. >> i'm not say

next up, the former justice secretary, sir robert buckland , has called for an buckland, has called for an amnesty for more than 29,000 people giving criminal convictions for breaking covid rules while they broke the rules. but then so did the government . so is ditching the government. so is ditching the fines the right thing to do .7 fines the right thing to do.7 next up, fines the right thing to do? next up, just stop oil has sparked fresh outrage this time after activists sprayed stonehenge, a world heritage site . bright orange is this site. bright orange is this cultural desecration a step too far even for these eco warriors ? far even for these eco warriors? gb news will be live from the sacred site and the tartan army have been off kilter since their five one millom by germany. well tonight they take on an in—form switzerland . can they restore switzerland. can they restore some pride, or might scotland be on the first flight home, clutching sore heads and the wooden spoon? that's all coming up between now and 6:00. welcome to the show. so today, in terms of polling , it's judge

you've got people like robert buckland saying that the party is not an amazon warehouse.ms like a divided party in this election, and that's never a good thing , tom, that's never a good thing, tom, i'm not sure that's right. i think actually we are a broad church, and you've just set out perhaps the breadth of it. and i think that's been the strength of our party, our parliamentary party, and that's been the strength that we've had over the last few elections. and in fact, right through the party's history as well. and i think that will be our strength going forward. but the fact of the matter is, at the moment, if you for vote anyone other than the conservatives, you are more likely to ensure that keir starmer becomes prime minister of this country. and that's something, frankly, that i don't want. that's something that i know many people who attempted to vote reform don't want, and that's why i'm so keen to get the message out that a vote for reform is a vote for labour. >> that may be true, but they're hot on your heels in the polling. why do you think that is ? is? >

signs a mutual defence pact with kim jong un, and our speech to the former lord chancellor, sir robert bucklandwho has called for an amnesty for covid fines. state of the nation stars bts now . now. i'll be joined by my panel historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop and associate comment editor of the telegraph , mumtaz editor of the telegraph, mumtaz ahmed. now it's time for the news bulletin with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> michael, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the newsroom tonight is that a new poll is forecasting the worst election defeat for the conservative party in its nearly 200 year history. yougov's latest study projects 425 seats for labour, which is 125 more than they won in 2019. that would leave the tories with just 108 seats and the lib dems with 67, 20 going to the snp and five seats for reform. i'm as far as the economy is concerned and away from the election, for the first time in nearly three years, inflation has fallen to the bank of england's 2% target. that rate has in turn boosted hopes of an interest rate cut in the coming months. mos

really exciting debate would be, nigel farage and or richard tice versus, both of them because, as robert bucklande to the ideology of the thing, last night and the institute of fiscal studies, which is entirely impartial . entirely impartial. >> jul, has said whoever wins the general election is going to have to look at the level of taxation if they're going to keep the size of the state and the level of social services the same. whoever is in power is probably going to have to put taxes up. so if sir keir is saying, no, no, we won't have to put any taxes up at all. and rachel reeves had tried to say that on, on television earlier as well, and rishi sunak is saying there'll be no change in tax at all. i suspect that that is the area that we need to have a discussion about. but as buckland said, and as as reform uk have said throughout the real debate is the size of the state, what the government tries to do for us and on our behalf, well, the state, the nhs, its size, its its remit and how much that costs because that's what tax is all about. and we didn't get that last night, but we got quite cl

next up, the former justice secretary, sir robert buckland , has called for an buckland, has called forbroke the rules. but then so did the government . so is ditching the government. so is ditching the fines the right thing to do ? fines the right thing to do? next up, just stop oil has sparked fresh outrage this time