he also -- i share with him a common interest in robert mardian. who was the least known of the watergate defendants or maybe the second least. >> who was convicted. >> least known convicted defendant. and he got involved in the appeal from the conviction, which he succeeded in overturning on a technical legal ground that it wasn't severed after his lawyer got sick and had to withdraw. he did have ample, good counsel from arnold's firm. i'm sure it wasn't inconfident counsel. just one mardian had chosen. we have a special bond and i'm sure we will have disagreements about bob mardian, but i'm sure for your enjoyment. for the last 30 years, a professor of law at the university of baltimore law school. and on my right is jim rabenault. and said how do i say it? jim has been working with john dean on the ethics training that stems out of the watergate experience and the question that john asked about how did so many lawyers get in to trouble because of watergate? and so, you will hear from his standpoint, on one hand, a convicted defendant. on the oth