has been, i would say, a model of both, but the real expert is seated to my right, and this is robert mcclurry and bob and i have known each other for awhile because we taught together at northwestern's school of journalism and taught students how to cover religion. that's how i got to know bob best, and then he came out with this biography, and so i wanted to interview bob in front of you today, and, you know, my first question would be why father michael flagger? why is he the perfect subject for a biography? >> well, i've asked myself that same question since i started on the book, but actually there's a pretty good reason. before i got into reporting, i was a chicago catholic priest, and my second assignment as a priest was as a pastor at st. sibina church on the south side of chicago, and that was in 1964. anybody here from there? >> my grandmother was. >> your grandmother, oh, good. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> probably was, yeah. what was her name? >> mary jennings. >> yeah, i remember the jennings part. anyhow, when i got there, the church was one of the largest catholic churches in th