the person in the driver seat is robert mueller. not donald trump and it isn't rudy giuliani who keeps changing his story to try to spin his way out of this. >> clearly the president is deeply concerned about what is going on. he would like to know what mueller has, as well. >>> let's turn to another sensitive issue, devon nunes told republican donors that the republicans have to keep the majority in the house of representatives in order to protect the president from mueller. listen to this. we have to keep all of these seats. we have to keep the majority. if we do not keep the majority all of this goes away. >> did he just say out loud something that members of congress are not supposed to say? >> yeah. absolutely. look, he went into that fundraiser for a political reason which is okay, completely legal. and he is making a political argument. also okay in the broad sense. but the fact of the matter is devon nunes, the argument he is making is members of congress don't work for the constituents that sent them. they work to protect t

robert mueller might do. quote, "law enforcement officials who have worked with mr. mueller a long time federal prosecutor and the head of the fbi believe that he will try to use every tool he has to get the president to answer questions and that he will probably subpoena him to testify if he does not agree to be questioned voluntarily." okay. that's one possibility. and trump lawyers offered "the new york times" another very credible possibility this time, saying some of mr. trump's lawyers believe that mr. mueller will not subpoena their client out of fear of losing a court fight that could undermine the investigation's legitimacy to the public. and so robert mueller is approaching a very difficult decision point, probably the most difficult decision point that he will face in his investigation of the president of the united states. and now to answer the question of what robert mueller will do, what robert mueller should do, we are now joined by jill wine-banks and glen kersner. thank you for being here 44 y

30 hours answering questions before robert mueller's team. >> well, it's extraordinary that the white house counsel spends 30 hours with mueller's team. obviously, going through in painstaking detail the events that have taken place throughout the trump administration, presumably focused a lot on whether there was efforts to obstruct justice connected to the firing of james comey, the withholding of evidence, the decision to urge other dos go easy. what communications may have taken place with the department of justice. with or beyond jeff sessions. so, there's an amount of information that don mcgahn was in a position to be able to provide on its own may not be incriminating but could be a piece to the puzzle of the conspiracy that may have existed between the trump campaign and russia to sell out our democracy. or, the obstruction of justice that may have taken place thereafter. >> president trump said he approved of the q&a session. how trance important, how open do you think mcgahn was with the mueller team? >> well, i think when you spend 30 hours with the mueller team it's clear

especially when referring to spush counsel robert mueller and his investigation, his russia investigationt me show you one recent tweet from the president. studying the late joseph mccorps thee because we are now in a period with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby. rigged witch-hunt. he is right on one point. we should study mccarthy. he was a disgraced wisconsin senator who in the 1950s turned the lives of many americans upside down by calling them communists. now mccarthyism means making whatever claim you want without regard for evidence. johning me a historian. welcome, sir, to the show. you know, you say it in your book title, most hated senator, comparing mccarthy to mueller, a competent law enforcement official, you tell me what president trump gets so wrong with this comparison? >> well, i don't know if he got as much wrong as you might think, actually. because i think what we have to do is weigh the difference between an historical judgment which of course now mccarthy has been dead for almost 60 years versus what is unfolding right now in washington,

he is now cooping with robert mueller.e and ukrainian oligarchs -- he helped them purchase inauguration tickets. foreign money, you are not allowed to do that. the fact -- so that in and of itself sort of shows the -- the lengths they go to to get close to the president. in addition he is cooperating with prosecutors as a part of his plea agreement. so we don't know what he is saying. but he could -- he- mueller will be able to ask him about the -- about what he might know, what some of the inner workings are, were there contacts with people in the trump orbit and russian -- and russians and the ukrainian og arcs. it is significant. >> and what's significant, also laura jarrett is we know the trump inauguration committee they raised a record $106 million twice with what the predecessors raised. that's significant. but what does samuel patton who pleaded guilty today to felony counts? what is his involvement in all of this? tell us where the mueller investigation is heading right now. >> well what's really interesting about

robert mueller's team interviews the woman who earned notoriety as the manhattan madam. the special counsel apparently wants to know about her ties to roger stone. is mueller building a case against the long-time trump ally? russian hysteria after u.s. intelligence chiefs paint a grim picture of continuing russian interference at u.s. elections. moscow responds with ridicule, calling it case of hysteria. >>> cooking the books. prosecutors say paul manafort lied about stashing money offshore. accountants say the former trump campaign chairman was cooking the books, and the government's star witness still hasn't taken the stand. >>> and pompeo versus the president. even as president trump lavishes praise on kim jong-un, secretary of state mike pompeo now says the north korean leader is not living up to his commitment to denuclearize. are they on the same page? i'm wolf blitzer, and you're in "the situation room." >> this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news. special counsel robert mueller's team met this week with a woman named kristen davis, better known as the manhattan

those words do not appear in the authorization of the robert mueller investigation. but that second component of the authority, which is anything that arises in the investigation, includes anything, including obstruction of justice. the part of the mueller investigation that rudy giuliani publicly fears the most is obviously the obstruction of justice part. we have new reporting on that today from mari woss in the new york review of books. he says he has been allowed to read a confidential white house memo which is in the special prosecutor's possession which "explicitly states that when trump pressured comey he had just been told by two of his top aides his then chief of staff reince priebus and his white house counsel don mcgahn, that michael flynn was under criminal investigation." last year the trump defense team delivered a letter to robert mueller outlining their defenses of the president on obstruction of justice. the key element of their defense was that president trump did not know that his national security adviser michael flynn was being investigated by th

president, are you going to sit down with robert mueller? >> reporter: but the president isn't signaling which way he's leaning, whether to tell what he knows about the russia probe to special counsel robert mueller. instead, he's letting the suspense build, tweeting this is an illegal witch hunt brought by people who are totally corrupt and/or conflicted. stay tuned. >> i think the tweets are ad nauseam at this point. we know what he thinks. i don't understand what he means by staytuned. >> reporter: rudy giuliani says an answer to the mueller question is coming soon, but he's dropping hints that mr. trump's legal team is worried a trap is being set. >> he knows the answers to every question he's going to ask. tell comey to go easy on flint?- the president is going to say, no, i didn't. why do you want to get him under oath? you want to trap him into perjury. we're not going to let you do that. >> reporter: giuliani said mueller shouldn't ask the question about whether the president obstructed justice in the case. >> the reality is he doesn

investigation without ever closing it done and who would also be able to take robert mueller's finalen report of his investigation and lock it in the attorney general's safe never to be seen by anyone. lindsey graham knows that you can't really support the mueller investigation if you are in favor of giving robert mueller a new boss in the justice department who will protect donald trump. after this break, joyce vance will analyze lindsey graham's new legal defense against donald trump against the charge of collusion. and when lindsey graham offered this defense today, he actually had to specify that he does not mean it as a joke. it's time for the 'biggest sale of the year' on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. and now, all beds are on sale. it's the last chance to save 50% on the new sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. ends labor day. ahoy! gotcha! nooooo... noooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. lit

i've literally led robert mueller into talk to my own counsel.not found something that he never will. >> what i understand actually wasn't something the president asked for or even know about that don mcgahn had been meeting with robert mueller and their team. and as far as holly clinton she has sweat planted throughout her years and i do not think has been uncooperative figure in public life. three and half hours, let's talk a little bit about benghazi -- 11 i was sitting there. i'm not really sure we are going with that but it is not something president trump wants. he likes to claim he is the most transparent president in history. but he fires anyone that he can who he feels is getting in the way. of this probe and the conclusion it was a witchhunt. and whatever else and robert mueller is going to do it meticulously and will take as long as he needs to get this right. >> should not that special counsel has declined to comment. not surprising there. john dowd, formerly outside counsel for the president says he thinks that don mcgahn was probabl

thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> do you believe robert mueller should agree to an interview with the president without questions, specific questions, being asked about obstruction of justice? >> i think mueller should insist on asking the president any questions that he thinks relevant to his investigation, only he knows where the investigation is leading, only he knows what the evidence he already has is and only he can make that decision and the president is duty bound to answer any questions that the special prosecutor, special counsel, may ask. >> the president could drag this all out past the midterm elections in november, there's a good chance that democrats, they could win back the majority in the house of representatives which would make you the chairman of the house judiciary committee. as chairman, what actions would you take if the president refuses to comply with mueller's request for an interview? >> if the president refuses to comply with mueller's request for an interview, i would presume mueller would issue a subpoena. there's well defined case law from the n

counsel robert mueller, is still working on. keep in mind this was a case that began with mueller and was referred over to the u.s. attorney's office. what samuel patton pleaded guilty to today was that he simply failed to register as a foreign agent. but really, the importance of this case is that this is the first time we're seeing that someone is admitting to helping russians and ukranians, essentially, funnel money into the trump inauguration. we know from our previous reporting, jim, that prosecutors and the fbi have been -- have talked to russian oligarchs when they enter the united states. they questioned them about any donations they made to the trump campaign, any donations they made to the inauguration, but this is the first time we're seeing this in a court document, in a guilty plea that samuel patton agreed to today. >> just a quick clarification here. is a donation to the inauguration, is that the equivalent of the donation to a campaign from a foreigner? >> it is illegal for a foreigner to donate to the inauguratio

whether they're with him or against him, they think he should answer questions from robert mueller. >at they think mueller should push and sit him down and get the answers to questions. so it's a two-edged sword. what i find interesting is whether or not, if there is a subpoena to the president to get him before a grand jury to answer questions, who that helps and who that hurts, because if you're looking at impeachment proceedings and mueller loses the argument for a subpoena, you could argue that the only solution, the only outlet to address this misconduct is impeachment. and that would solidify things, perhaps in favor of impeachment. >> steve, i want your thought on what frank has just said and what chuck said. i want to read you more from robert costa reporting in the washington post of the giuliani said memorandum b-- members of trump's team had conversations related to the investigation. he would have a big role and would assert presidential privilege. to say more decline those discussions, officials say flood has cautioned trump and others about the unpredictability of a subp

fbi, and robert mueller announces them and celebrates the fact lockheed martin won the award. g: didn't bob mueller also get rich, because he leaves government, goes to work for boose, allen, hamilton who just happened to receive hundreds of millions of dollars from the fbi under mueller's previous direction? >> exactly right. that wasn't the only client robert mueller served. there were others as well. but no, you have it exactly right. multiple clients that robert mueller worked with at the fbi. he then went on into the private sector. he and comey kind of work as a tag team. comey tags in, mueller tags out. in 2013, robert mueller sets up robert mueller and associates, a consulting firm, then also takes on clients through another firm who, by the way, several attorneys from there join robert mueller on his special counsel clinton-connected attorneys, no less. right, he does the same thing. it's the revolving door, it's cashing in on public service. it's outrageous. gregg: so there is bottom line, a revolving door between government service and big business, and when you go c

when he was there and ordering that firing of robert mueller, mcgahn thought it was ill advised. there were other parts of the white house that mcgahn was being briefed on. so certainly with him gone now, a lot of time spent with the mueller team, they could decide that they may want to bring him back to see if anything new has come up. but certainly the idea that he had been already before the special counsel for 30 hours is pretty significant. and who knows what else. he could potentially provide other information since he has gone now. >> good point. key to what mueller has been investigating. >> absolute i labsolutely. he has been at the front row for everything. the comey firing rkt tinfiring, firing. also the relationship between the president and jeff sessions, a key part of the mueller investigation. we know that they have been looking at that. so don mcgahn has been through it all. he was there before the president was elected, during the campaign. obviously those -- that aspect of the investigation still ongoing. important to mueller. so mcgadon mcgahn with the two s tha

investigation without ever closing it done and who would also be able to take robert mueller's finalgation and lock it in the attorney general's safe never to be seen by anyone. lindsey graham knows that you can't really support the mueller investigation if you are in favor of giving robert mueller a new boss in the justice department who will protect donald trump. after this break, joyce vance will analyze lindsey graham's new legal defense against donald trump against the charge of collusion. and when lindsey graham offered this defense today, he actually had to specify that he does not mean it as a joke. your retail business. so that if your customer needs shoes, & he's got wide feet. & with edge-to-edge intelligence you've got near real time inventory updates. & he'll find the same shoes in your store that he found online he'll be one happy, very forgetful wide footed customer. at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & if your customer also forgets socks! & you could send him a coupon for that i

robert mueller, until the president began taking shots at him has always been known and praised for being the opposite of mccarthy. the president would have you believe that mccarthy and mueller are on equal footing. that's the place we're in right now. the president and people speaking for him believe truth isn't truth. just listen to what the president's lawyer had to say about whether the president should talk to robert mueller. >> what i have to tell you is, i'm not going to be rushed in having him testify so he gets trapped into perjury. when you tell me that he should testify because he's going to tell the truth, and he shouldn't worry. that's silly, because it's someone's version of the truth, not the truth. he didn't have a conversation about -- >> truth is truth. >> no, it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. the president of the united states says i didn't -- >> truth is the truth, mr. mayor, do you realize -- this is going to become a bad m eme. >> today, giuliani tried to clean things up. my statement was not meant as a pontification on moral theology. the classic he said she said

bloomberg reports that the day after he interviewed robert mueller to be the deputy director of the fbi trump was in an office meeting when it was announced that mueller was announced to be the lead investigator of the campaign. trump and attorney general jeff session were blind sided according to a person familiar with both meetings. trump blasted session for not knowing the announcement was coming and how he didn't know the person he just interviewed and who the president said he had a past dispute with over golf club fees could be now investigating him, he said. we don't know if trump turned down mueller for the fbi job at this point, but christopher wray wasn't named to be director until a month after mueller's appointment on counsel. it's likely mueller was in the running when he was named to investigate the trump team. bloomberg notes, from that moment on, trump campaigned to aides about a perceived grudge. of course, that grudge has likely been exacerbated by a criminal trial of the former campaign chairman, paul manafort. today we heard from the first five witnesses who were gra

technically, he could fire robert mueller or order mueller to be fired, to be clear. that would be a red line that even his allies say he should not cross. >> that's right. we're talking about a huge difference between what the president technically has the authority to do. the justice department is part of the executive branch. the president is at the head. the doj works for the president. that includes mueller. technically, the president would have the authority to fire him. that doesn't mean it is prudent. that doesn't mean it wouldn't dramatically undermine the way the complex institution of the executive branch is poup tosupp work. that's why the comments are galling to people in the justice department, everyone in the space. >> jeff, we've been in front of the president before, asking him questions, interacting with him. it is different when you're in the room. >> mm-hmm. >> what was his demeanor like? did he seem defiant or fiery or resigned? what was the mood you got? >> he wasn't fiery or resigned. he was a little bit -- when we first walked in, he wasn't sup

in january of this year, the president's lawyers told special counsel robert mueller in a letter that mr. trump dictated the statement himself. cnn reported on that letter to mr. mueller in june. >> last month, michael cohen is willing to tell the special counsel that the president did know about the trump tower meeting in advance. and now the tweet. admitting the meeting was designed to get information on the opponent and claiming he did not know about it. >> got that? >> got it. >> does it make sense? >>> the trial of paul manafort on bank and tax fraud charges resuming this morning with defense lawyering cross kpami examining witnesses. a witness told jurors in 2016 she sent a fake letter from a shell company to a bank to help paul manafort get a loan. she also implicated manafort deputy rick gates. she took the actions under his direction. now she was given immunity for exchange for the testimony. rick gates is expected to take the stand early this week. >>> three months to go before the midterms. administration officials are trying to convince voters that president trump doesn't

only robert mueller's team knows what was said in those 30 hours. but donald trump is not at ease with this story. >> you touched on this, the suggestion coming from the "new york times" report that mcgahn was somehow worried about being set up by the president as the fall guy. >> oh, i think that's quite clear what's happened here. i mean, sources who, and quite clearly thisser to story is ba sources close to mcgahn, sources have told "the new york times" that you have the 1973 precedent during watergate where richard nixon's team through the white house counsel john dean through him under the bus. he pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice. they hoped that would end watergate, of course it didn't. but mcgahn's people are looking at that saying is it possible for donald trump who is not known for loyalty to his subordinates could turn on mcgahn and say i got bad advice, i didn't know i was obstruction s justice, it was my lawyer's fault. this is a way to block off the possibility that he's the fall guy. >> i want to pose this question to you. do y

one of the president's closest advisers, don mcgahn, sitting down with special counsel robert mueller's team. president trump tweeted that's no big deal, insisted he allowed it, stating disdprased, discredited bob mueller spent 30 hours only with my approval, for purpose of transparency. much of washington second guessing that decision to allow him to testify. part of the trump strategy to cooperate. the president's lawyers don't exactly know what was said during mcgahn's 30 hours of testimony as they were never fully briefed. >> don mcgahn has no choice then but to go in and answer everything, everything question they can ask him, and this is not in the president's interest, wasn't in the president's interest. >> reporter: a source familiar with mcgahn's testimony says the white house could assert executive privilege over what he told the team, setting up a battle for information provided to prosecutors. >> i believe that in terms of jeopardy to the president, i don't see the down side to having mcgahn go in and talk with them, and dowd said mcgahn was a strong within. >> reporter: que

special counsel robert mueller is offering the president a compromise. mber of obstruction of justice questions. he wants the president to answer those questions in person. the president's lawyers offered written answers to obstruction questions. the trump legal team wanted the sit down interview limited to things that happened before he took office mainly related to the collusion piece of mueller's probe. this is happening just one day after the president said his attorney general should the end russia investigation. so back with me former attorney general alberto gonzales. and so mr. attorney general the president's tweet from yesterday. the white house says whoa, whoa, that was an opinion, not an order to the ag, that trump wrote the word should and not must. do you think it crossed a line? >> i'm not sure that it did given the past statements by the president. everyone knows that's the president's opinion and he would like to see this ended and everyone knows the president has ways to end this investigation if he wanted to. one of the thing i worry ab

going to talk about the cloud of robert mueller over president trump's first day of vacation in bedminster his attorney, tv attorney rudy giuliani acknowledging to nbc news he may not be able to prevent mueller from questioning trump on the question of russian collusion which might mean real legal jeopardy for the president especially as his former campaign chairman paul mafo

right before joining the robert mueller team.nk you for being here i am maria bartiromo, welcome to "sunday morning futures". the president ramps up his midterm campaigning as he is in the battleground state of ohio and pennsylvania. and threatening about shorting the government down over the border. plus more ahead. and the u.s. restoring stations iran. the president offered to meet the leaders with no preconditions. plus, the senate democratic leadership going to reverse course meeting with supreme court justice nominate brett kavanaugh. new email showing peter strzok tried to keep his security clearance before joining the robert mueller team as congress continues investigating the doj and fbi actions leading up to the 2016 election. a congressman is here who questioned peter strzok and he is here with us. next on "sunday morning ♪ ♪ futures". ♪ [music] first, the president holding a campaign style rally less than a hothead of a special election this upcoming tuesday. the president hitting on a wide range of topics last night w

some american media reports say robert mueller has evidence to the contrary.in the intelligence community told me there was an electronic trail that put cohen in prague. there is no corroboration of that claim, but if true this is the collusion president trump's enemies have long imagined. cohen also knows about an interesting meeting in trump tower during their campaign. donald trump jr sat down trump tower during their campaign. donald trumer sat down with a lawyer from the kremlin and donald trumer sat down with a lawyerfrom the kremlin and promised dirt on hillary clinton. one former trump campaign aide told me, we couldn't even co—ordinate with the rnc in pennsylvania let alone with russian intelligence, but if there was not exactly a highly organised conspiracy it does leave open the possibility of collusion — that's what cohen's lawyer hints at and he says trump might have known ahead of time of russian hacking. donald trump has never been in such a serious trouble. his presidency might now hang on what cohen has to say. michael cohen's lawyer is lanny

one, she may have been queried by the president about what she said to robert mueller's investigators. two, she may have been confronted either by mueller's investigators or back channel conversations that her lawyer had with other lawyers, that her accounts weren't necessarily in line with those given by other people. i think there were six people. hope hicks, sean spicer, reince priebus, don mcgahn and josh rafael, james berman who was deputy in the counsel's office who were added to bob mueller's list of people he wanted to interview sometime around that period after the statement was crafted aboard air force one. do you think there is any scenario where hope hicks has now offered to cooperate or offered something up to bob mueller if she did, in fact, give some sort of different account or if she did have to call and say that the president had asked her about her testimony? >> the way this usually works, nicolle, is that such a person, a witness is called in and given a shot. look, you've given us information that's inconsistent with what others are telling us. there is a veracity

has he been interviewed by robert mueller? >> i don't represent don jr. but i will tell you i have no knowledge at all of don jr. being told that he's a target of any investigation, and i have no knowledge of him being interviewed by the special counsel. >> and the president said again that he had no knowledge of this meeting in trump tower. is the president prepared to testify under oath that he had no knowledge of that meeting and that he was not involved in any way? >> you just asked the predicate first. you got to ask is the president prepared to testify under oath. let me address that first. there's been a lot of speculation over that. we are moving as expeditiously as possible to make the determination and make our recommendation to the president. the president has been clear that he wants to interview. i will tell you his legal team is concerned. we're concerned on a number of reasons. number one, a series of the questioning goes to the heart and core of his authority as president of the united states, article two. why did you fire james comey. art

he charges brought by special counsel robert mueller.ichael cohen pleaded guilty to breaking federal direction law -- electton loss at the direction of the president including paying hush money. >> he paid money to silence women he he believed would be detrimental to the 2016 campaign and the candidate. it is clear that the wommn are pornr bbrn star -- are star stormy daniels and former playboy model karen mcdougal. cohen's plea deal raises the possibility he will provide other information to mueller. cooperation from another foomer truck they'd like -- trump aid michael flynn. he pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi about rrssian official ccntact for >> good to see you, doug. breake had such a story before, is this likely to have an impact on donald trump? >> donald trump has been tefloo until now. pe fights back, deeies, dodges, he will never take the blame himself. to deflect blame, if not onto democrats onto opponentt who criticize them, most usually via he has yet to tweet on this turn oo events. this was a bad day for donald trump. e

." >> at least you prepared a slow monday for me, so don mcgahn speaking to robert mueller's investigators. he did not give the laws a full act of what they told mueller's team trump's long time personal attorney could learn son, cnn could learn soon their in the final stages of their prosecution. they could be preparing criminal charges by the end of this month. >> rudy juligiuliani had a new reality bending argument for in the president should not be temperatures. -- testifying. >> you say that he will tell the tru truth, but it is someone's version of truth. giuliani tries to create a universe of factual unreality. he says there are no such things, let's go to joe with more. >> the president allowing the white house council to sit down with the special council for hours and hours. there are conflicting ideas in play right now while sources say that don mcgahn did not give any incriminating information to the special council, it is pretty clear he did not also tell the white house or the president's legal team all of what he said. >> new questionest about his conversation with robert hoo

but she did imply she has already begin it to robert mueller. so our big question is, is this bluster or is omarosa the smoking gun? joining me now nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, nbc news intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian, white house reporter for "the washington post" ashley parker, senior reporter for "vanity fair" emily jane fox. emily and ashley are msnbc contributors. she also released a new audiotape with lara trump. she has released a statement. i want to read that. from the beginning of my father-in-law's campaign omarosa was welcome into our family as a trusted friend. on the women for trump tour, including omarosa, we formed a sisterhood bond that is unlike any i have experienced in my life. we toured together, laughed together, and worked really hard towards a common goal. we never would have imagined one of our own was secretly recording all of our private conversations. back to the wikileaks stuff. ken, i want to start with you. this is an explosive, explosive claim from omarosa that the p

have more on that in just a moment, but first we're following news on multiple fronts about robert mueller's russia investigation. less than a week after paul manafort was convicted on bank and fraud charges, the "wall street journal" is reporting that paul manafort sought a deal in the next trial. those discussions took place while he was deliberating in his last one in virginia. quote, the plea talks on the second set of charges stalled over issues raised by special counsel robert mueller, one of the people said. it isn't clear what those issues

robert mueller using the u.s. military information had the specifics of how the russians tried to destroy our election. what computer screens, what their key strokes were. what buildings they were in. the detail was so specific that we busted them red handed beyond any reasonable doubt. but think about this. if mike pence had his way and this had been shut down in may, like mike pence was saying, we would never have this evidence that, basically, showed what the russians tried to do and what they're going to try to do again in 2018. >> oh, yeah. that's just one part of it. i mean, for instance, before the mueller probe began, we were operating in which the trump campaign and trump white house was insisting that there was no contact with russians at all. >> but mike pence said, can you believe that mike pence actually had the nerve to say in 2017, we were never talking to any russians. nobody related to this campaign ever talked to any russians. we were talking to americans. just as extraordinary lie when you look

we're not going to let you do that. >> what does robert mueller want from president trump? >> well, in this case, bob mueller wants to know what exactly president trump was thinking when he said these things. i don't think there's any dispute about at least the thrust of what was said. we've heard from jim comey under oath. before congress. and mueller has heard the same thing presumably from comey and his team about what exactly president trump said. what bob mueller and his team want to know is what exactly was going through trump's head. was there some sort of criminal intent when he said these things to jim comey about michael flynn, when he was interacting with others that are central to this obstruction investigation? unless there is a smoking gun e-mail that is written by president trump that seems to convey his deepest innermost thoughts, that says when i told jim comey to let this flynn thing go, i was trying to obstruct justice. i don't think the muller team is going to be satisfied because that's precisely what they're looking for. they need to go beyond exactly w