another man was in the audience, robert wood johnson, and he too was inspired by lister, and he got together with his brother to create the company johnson & johnson, and the first thing they produced were surgical antisentive dressings -- antiseptic dressings. these are funny. they were produced at the late 19th, early 20th centuries by johnson & johnson, and they're kind of an idiot's guide on how to operate on your own kitchen table, and it's all perfectly safe as long as you use johnson & johnson's surgical dressings. this was the kind of thing they were trying to promote and teach people, and that all came out of lister's trip. so i was very, very excited to begin in philadelphia. when lister got to philadelphia, he took a train trip around america, and he went all the way to the west coast, and he was trying to convince americans of the existence of germs. and he was very much on a mission. this was a very personal thing to him. it wasn't about money, it was about saving people's lives. in fact, lister or had a knack of -- lister had a knack of ticking off his colleagues because he did