us before, this is robin curner, besides being author what do you do for a living? >> i consult and train folks likes candidates and volunteering organizations that need to persuade large numbers of people of new ideas, kind of in the selling and branding of ideas' business if you like. >> host: could you walk us through one of the times you've done this and with whom? >> guest: well, candidate up in seattle, a gentleman called mat susan who was bravely running as a libertarian in a 90% democratic district. so you've got to do some quite interesting things branding the message, you have to run in basically downtown seattle. we had a wonderful effective campaign, we ran a campaign that said there is no them and this is a statement against the sense that politics have become very tribal, very divisive and even up there in seattle where you've got basic political culture, right, throughout the united states that the problems of the extremes, whatever side you're on, left or right and in many ways, the quiet moderate left and the quiet moderate right have more in common

us before, this is robin curner, besides being author what do you do for a living?>> i consult and train folks likes candidates and volunteering organizations that need to persuade large numbers of people of new ideas, kind of