the rocca brothers. in england heston blumenthal. in the u.s. grant -- >> rose: these are people who have great restaurants like heston blumenthal and adrian did before he went away to study or teach or whatever he's doing. >> well, he's going to reopen it as a culinary foundation where they do research in food without serving food to paying customers. which i say that's kind of what have my lab has been doing for the last five years. so in terms of guys that write cook books and do research in food without serving food i'm kind of one of those, too. >> rose: yeah, but do you like food because you love to eat or do you like food because it's just an interesting thing for you that you can go off and explore? >> well, it's both those and one other. and so, of course i love to eat. and without a passion for eating and a passion for food you can't go very far in being a chef. you have to appreciate the subtle nuances. >> rose: do you believe that's true that most good chefs are also great eaters. >> they have to be great tasters. >> rose: they have