roger lowenstein is author of "the end of wall street." he's a columnist for bloomberg news. gregory zuckerman is a reporter for "the wall street journal," and author of "the greatest trade ever," a book about hedge fund manager john paulson and his bet against the housing boom. roger lowenstein, that line from senator learn early on that we heard about the conduct of all wall street being in question, how much of this was about goldman, how much about a larger picture? what did you hear going on today? >> jim, i really think that leaven hit the nail on the head. it is a question about all of wall street. it's not whether goldman defrauded its customers so much. the courts will decide that. it's not even goldman's reputation which presumably in time will recover, but goldman, like other firms, structured tens of billions of securities that added absolutely nothing to the economy. they contributed nothing to real estate. them didn't put a single american in their homes... in new homes. they just allowed people to take bets. when the mortgage bubble collapsed, they greatly aggr

it was raised brilliantly in an article in today's new york times by roger lowenstein. i don't understand the third and fourth-party bets with no link to the buyer or seller in hedging. >> that's the point. they don't provide the opportunity to spread risk in a real economy. if those things are going on they should be out of the banks and the large financial houses like goldman sachs who have an implicit government guarantee and put into some sort of gambling mechanism akin to las vegas. it's like two guys betting on the redskins. better to put them in a paramutual system and disengage bank capital and so forth. this stuff is so complex and so large no amount of capital requirements and no regulations, the obama administration can dream up or trading platform will fix it. >> you're saying -- it's complicated and you don't understand it. >> fellows, on that point -- >> out of derivatives trading is silly. they have real positions to hedge. also, they represent investors. they counsel investors. the notion of getting them out of derivatives trading is silly if they are to

we have roger lowenstein and author of the just published book "the end of wall street." and nicole, author of "after the fall." i read "after the fall, " and i loved it. roger, i have not gotten to your book yet, but i will because i always read your stuff. nicole, let me start with you. does this bill solve the problem? somebody's got to ask this. i feel like i'm going to ask it. >> no, it certainly does not. thank you, larry, for having me on. the text of the bill says that the fdic, which would be responsible for liquidating these failed financial firms to bail out creditors to make lenders whole for the losses at their banks when the fdic feels that is necessary and appropriate, and, of course, the government is going to feel that way in the next financial crisis, a crisis that will be created by this very expectation. >> interesting. roger, get your take on what nicole said. roger, i was riffing with congressman mike pence before, don't know if you heard any part of that segment. >> i heard the whole thing. he called the $50 billion fund a reenactment of the t.a.r.p.

joining us, allison dean, founder of dean's wealth management and roger lowenstein, author of "the end quality." thanks for joining us, allison. roger will join us in a few minutes. allison, that gives you the stage, if you will. did he do enough and do you think that especially in light of the goldman sachs issues that are out there, that trust is being restored? >> i think the three things he focused on today do wind up getting passed in the bill, if they do, that he will do a lot to restore confidence. one of the more important things is transparency. the big issue that really results from this crisis is this enormous mushroom and magnitude of the exposures and how interconnected all these firms were. by really forcing transparency of derivative transactions, that goes a long way. >> a lot of people say what's pending on capitol hill would not have prevented the situation that it allegedly took place with goldman sachs. you've written about this and you have some very interesting opinions on not only goldman sachs but wall street behavior. >> well, i think first, it certainly would