and roger parloff, i would go to you.ovelty, i think what i was most focusing on is this notion that you did not have to be at the capitol that day to be guilty of seditious conspiracy. because the conceit from the justice department was, look, you could have directed the mob, at a lower level proud boys to be used as pawns, as tools, in the effort to carry out the seditious conspiracy. this was an uphill climb, in some respects, for the doj, given its history that mary mccord so eloquently laid out. what was the outlook in the courtroom through this extended trial? >> well, there was some concern about whether enrique tarrio, the top defendant in a way, the national chairman of the proud boys at that time, could be convicted and whether the jury would think that conducting -- the fact that he was in baltimore throughout all of this puts him in -- its certainly puts him in a different situation. but you had his involvement in, really, creating the chapter, a special chapter that was created on december 12th, the day after