roger severino still with us, i imagine? >> yes. >> dana: roger, when it comes to what schools might have been already doing, i assume that they were watching this very closely. they were planning ahead. and as ken markus said they might have been trying to figure out a way to get around it. what is the mechanism to see if schools will figure out a way to be in line with what the supreme court has now said is unconstitutional? >> one of the troubling developments we've seen is that elite universities are now getting rid of the s.a.t. that was the ticket of entrance for so many minority groups. starting originally with jewish groups back in 1910s and 20s. all of a sudden too many jews according to harvard and created a personal interview process and then all of a sudden the jewish numbers went down. we saw the same thing with asians who were doing very well on standardized tests and all of a sudden they want to get rid of that. title six uses a methodical disparate impact to rule out racial discrimination attempted to be hidde

. >>> well, for more reaction we welcome roger severino, former director of the office of civil rightspartment of health and human services, currently vice president of domestic policy at the heritage foundation. roj arer, you have an interesting personal story to tell about all of this particularly with regard to harvard law school where you were admitted. i take the it your feelings have changed about affirmative action programs over the years, right in. >> yes. i was a beneficiary of affirmative action for many years, and i grew up in a poorer circumstances, highly diverse, but my asian friends including an asian girlfriend did not have same opportunities i had even though we grew up in the same place because of the color of my skin. and it really gnawed on me for years. i eventually stopped participating. i couldn't stand with that injustice, and when i went to apply for harvard law school, i did not check the box, and i'm so glad i did -- didn't because, you know, i wanted to be measured on my worth, on my merit. and, yes, my life story's important, but you can't reduce that to ju

want to go to roger severino, director of the office of civil rights in the trump administration, formeril rights attorney. he knows of what he speaks. roger, an honor to have you. you know, the confluence of these decisions, roger, you've heard a lot coming from the left and progressives in general that these are not friendly to minorities. and not friendly to those who want some help. i don't quite know where the supreme court thing on student debt figures into that, but the affirmative action move in particular. if anything, it probably shows the strength of the conservative majority, but what do you think? >> well, on the minority's point, minorities were the ones being hurt by the decision. asian-americans in the harvard case were artificially capped and being held down. their seat at the table wassing with taken away -- was being taken away by an unjust reregime9 that the biden administration wants to perpetuate. i was so disappointed by president biden's statement. he's engaged in a campaign of massive resistance to the supreme court, he's saying they have to resist the dobbs deci