it was part of his romneycare and now part of the health care plan. this is very, very simple and shouldn't be nearly as confusing as it's been. >> with regard to flip-flopping, mitt romney is not just a flip-flopper. he is a double somer salt triple double dip flip-flopper. this guy has been all over the map on every single issue. that is an important quality to bring out to make people understand that it is an aspect of character. >> mr. secretary, thank you, coming up, republicans are worried that mitt romney is spoiling what could have been a winnable election and there are a lot of people who never likeded romney saying see, i told you so. i read an article... well, i read the majority of an article online about how older people are becoming more and more antisocial, so i was really aggressive with my parents about joining facebook. my parents are up to 19 friends now? so sad. ♪ i have 687 friends. this is living. what!? that is not a real puppy. that's too small to be a real puppy. [ male announcer ] venza. from toyota. wouldn't it be nice if th

we didn't like romneycare too much and what you're doing this story on right now is the editorial wethe other day where we basically said, look, governor romney, the game is on. let's get going. it's time to really take the gloves off and start hitting. i think one of the weaknesses of mitt romney's campaign so far has been that he's allowed these attacks against bain capital, against his business act and what he did when he was running that company, this should be an asset. this is a guy who created whole new industries. who provided the finances for companies that have created tens of thousands of jobs, unlike the president who's never created private sector job. he's on the defensive on this, obama's running ads against him and there's been little positive response on that. you know, governor, i agree with you that this is kind of a slow season for politics. a lot of people aren't paying attention to this kind of day-to-day combat, but i do think the major issue as you know is going to be jobs. we had a lousy jobs report today. and what mitt romney has to do in my opinion is reall

romneycare, obamacare, helped some people and hurt others.t basically pits the very poor against the near poor. that is not a solution. i think the debate misses the point which is we can solve this problem. there is a track record of success, called medicare. instead is spending on wasteful insurance bureaucracy and paper pushing, we can take that 30% and squeeze it down to 3%. that is what the overhead is in medicare. and use that incredible windfall to expand healthcare and cover everyone. medicare works. people like it we need to improve it, but it works and we have a track record all over the world, really, of just about every developed nation. >> just drop in the over 65? >> right. let's make it from the point of conception on, that we're basically covered from cradle to grave. >> how can u.s. of for that? >> is a money saver. we know because of that 30% waste, that is part and parcel for are privatized health care system now, 30% of your health care dollar is paying for those elaborate forms you have to fill out every time your engines

there is greater similarity between romneycare and obamacare then there is between romneycare and ronnieandidate care. he is being politically expedient by taking something he said would be a good model for the nation and now saying i will repeal is on the first day. this is politics, as the whole debate has been. host: bert, we will come back to you. caller: i agree with what the man just said. is the same case with obama. they're both harvard-educated politicians. if you are productive middle- class person, it will cost more than what they are saying. you are looking at the largest tax on the middle class in history. one thing people are not talking about yet is that they are going to hire 30,000 additional irs agents to implement this. they're not hiring 30,000 additional doctors. my wife is a nurse practitioner. a lot of doctors do not take medicaid patients. there are more doctors not taking medicare patients. concierge practices are the old-fashioned way. the patient pays the doctor. host: they are much more expensive. we will get a reaction thank you. guest: robert is right. there

and this program what they call obamacare, is modeled on of romneycare. the worst person to bebe making this decision. >> obama gets the initial boost because his prestige is enhanced, anand he avoided a calamity. had he lost, it would've looked like he spent a year-and-a-half on somethihing he did not understand. he is supposed to be depression- era -- professor of constitutional law. the individual mandate which he has a hard time arguing, is dollar an issue. now it is aolicy issue. is this going to be a good idea? there are a lot of arguments that mitt romney can make. right now i if you look at the polls, there is an 11-point spread between those who support obama and republicans who want to exploit it. in the state of the union address, the president gave one line t obabamacare, why?y? his signanature achievevement? he knows it is a losing issue. >> immigration. split decisision. >> both roberts and kennedy sided with the liberal justices. they suck down most of the arizona law upheld the so- called show me your papers provision, but with so many cav

successful, more than 70% approval rating, and this program, what they call obamacare, is modeled on romneycare in massachusetts appeare. >> obama gets the initial boost. he avoided a calamity. had he lost, it would have looked like he spent a year and a half on something that he should have known about, constitutional law. yes, republicans do not like it. the individual mandate, he has a hard time arguing because he supported it, that is no longer an issue. now is a policy issue. is this going to be a good idea? i think there are a lot of arguments that romney can make. there is an 11-point spread between people who support obamacare, those who do not, republicans exploit that. in the state of the union address, the president gave one line to obamacare. why? signature achievement? he knows it is a losing issue. >> it was 5-3, so both roberts and kennedy sided with the liberals. justice keegan was reduced in this case. they struck down most of the arizona law, upon the show me your papers provision, but with so many caveat, it is a very circumscribed way to be enforced. if you have to rate it,

we both know that obamacare is romneycare, so he is kind of the next. he is putting a spin on it. and they are looking that they could move onto different issues. >> -- tavis: if i said to you, to your earlier point, that this will galvanize the base, as people who were not altogether romani fans, they do not like him, but they hate barack obama, and they hate obamacare, if i say to you it will galvanize a rally the base, and that way, it is a may be long-term victory for mitt romney, what would you say? >> mitt romney has had a very hard time galvanizing the base. we all know that. the question is being anti- obamacare, does that pay off for him? it may. on the other side, i think the president has an opportunity to kind of resell this to the american public. we could have a long conversation about this. they like this better. whatever. whenever works. i think the president has done a wonderful job in the wake of the ruling on how this helps people, making it an issue of fairness, and again the american dream. we know the democrats got off on the wrong foot. they were flatfooted

. >> nation, the supreme court has upheld romneycare thanks to the model governor romney provided in massachusetts millions of americans will now be able to afford health insurance for the first time. he lifted a burden from so many families and finally brought america up to the standard of every other industrialized nation in the world. thank you, mitt romney. but you know what, folks, this guy is so humble, i bet will never hear him take credit for it. we'll be right back with more analysis and "slate" >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. folks, now that obamacare has been ruled constitutional, many questions remain. for instance, what? here to tell me what is slate's senior legal editor emily bazelon. emily, thank you so much for joining me again. emily, now wait one second. first of all, broccoli? broccoli? >> well, i actually really like broccoli. >> stephen: i will tell you what, i will put this in a gosy bag. >> all right. >> stephen: now as a conservative, as somebody who opposes this decision where can we go from here? >> you could elect mitt romney and hope-- . >> stephen:

leader" of new hampshire an avatar of conservative journali, who pointed out that the guy that the romneycare folks they used in their -- romney folks they used in their ads got tax credits from new hampshire and in addition to that was livining off of federal contracts. it was not like he just started in his own private and did it during lunch hour. -- own garage and did it during lunch hour. >> why would he just let t this go by? let me ask charles. >> it captures the essence of obama's view of the economy and society. he is very clear. he says it was taken out of context. the context makes it worse. he starts by saying that if you are wealthy and successful, you did not get there alone. you think you are so smart? a lot of people are smart. you think you work hard? a lot of people worked hard he is distorting the effort, the prince, the ingenuity -- he is discounting the effort, brains, ingenuity and hard work of people who are successful, and says that what put you where you are is what government has done. that is a reasonable argument, a very old argument of left and right, but it prese

. >> we don't hear much about romneycare since the supreme court or even before, and romney took days to accept that it was a tax and not a penalty, as romney wants to call it. >> i agree with you. this is a crazy election. the ggest legislation we have had, the most revolutionary, is obamacare. president will not speak of it, and his opponent will not speak of it. this is insane. >> two signature issues off the table. >> each of them is not terribly happy with the political consequences. >> while we're on the topic of naacp, attorney general eric holder and joe biden books spoke about the border id law, which they claimed are being put in place to suppress minority vote. >> we have seen this kind of thing in past years but we saw it in north carolina when jesse helms did it -- >> why is it unreasonable to ask somebody for a picture id, a driver's license or something similar? >> not readily available items for people to have. and the difficulty of that requirement falls disproportionately on minority voters. the people pushing these voters oppression measures know that well that that

. >> we don't hear much about romneycare since the supreme court, or even before, and romney took days to get to it is at tax, as the republicans want to call it, and not a penalty, which is what he thinks it is. >> i agree with you, it is crazy. the most revolutionary legislation we have had is obamacare. the president will not speak of it and his opponent will not speak of it. it is insane. >> two signature issues off the table. >> attorney general eric holder and joe biden books spoke to the same audience about the border id laws, which they claims are being put in place to suppress the minority vote. >> we have seen this kind of thing in presidential campaigns for years. we saw it north carolina when jesse helms did it to suppress the black vote. >> why is it unreasonable to ask somebody for a picture i.d.? driver's license or something similar? >> they are not readily available items for people have. the difficulty of that requirement falls disproportionately on minority voters. they know that. the people pushing for these suppression measures know dogg one well that that is the i

. >> nation, the supreme court has upheld romneycare thanks to the model governor romney provided in massachusetts millions of americans will now be able to afford health insurance for the first time. he lifted a burden from so many families and finally brought america up to the standard of every other industrialized nation in the world. thank you, mitt romney. but you know what, folks, this guy is so humble, i bet will never hear him take credit for it. we'll be right back with more analysis and "slate" ♪[swing music plays] ♪[swing music plays] this summer... win a ledgendary voyage to heineken destinations around the world. head to your local participating retailer... for details. ut time we made our homes work for us. so let's make our dryers do the ironing. have our fridges cater our parties. and tell our ranges to whip up dinner. let's plug in to summer savings before they're gone... ...without wasting an ounce of energy with smart machines that turn housework into house play. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, save $600 on this maytag french

governor romney's romneycare is obamacare with very few words changed but here we are again with another parallel with 1944, the last year, the last full year of world war ii. world war ii in 1944 was not yet a very settled thing. we had been invading islands in the central pacific with the japanese had taken over earlier in the war. we have not yet landed in europe. they d. a. would not be until june 6, 1944. which i remember because my wedding anniversary is the tenth anniversary of d-day. don't know what that says about our marriage but in any case i won't for get the anniversary because it was the date of d day. the results of this unsettled work -- work --war was he had to continue on and the war had to be run and the peace effort had to be won. was there someone to take his place? he was not well. he knew he was not well. he didn't know how sick he was but he knew he was not well. on the cover of my book shows roosevelt the way he actually looked in 1944. behind me is a flattering picture of roosevelt supposedly done early in 1945 but it is flattering and looks like a campaign post

there is greater similarity between romneycare and obamacare then there is between romneycare and ronniedate care. he is being politically expedient by taking something he said would be a good model for the nation and now saying i will repeal is on the first day. this is politics, as the whole debate has been. host: robert, we will come back to you. caller: i agree with what the man just said. is the same case with obama. they're both harvard-educat ed politicians. if you are productive middle- class person, it will cost more than what they are saying. you are looking at the largest tax on the middle class in history. one thing people are not talking about yet is that they are going to hire 30,000 additional irs agents to implement this. they're not hiring 30,000 additional doctors. my wife is a nurse practitioner. a lot of doctors do not take medicaid patients. there are more doctors not taking medicare patients. concierge practices are the old- fashioned way. the patient pays the doctor. host: they are much more expensive. we will get a reaction thank you. guest: robert is right. there

look, if he's trying to protect him from romneycare, here's the deal. nobody cares what happened in massachusetts. we're fighting for the life of the country and the survival of the constitution. let's get with the program, right? >> yeah. actually i wasn't tough on governor romney, but his press secretary, who said immediately the governor doesn't think it's a tax, it's a penalty. i said, look, this guy should take the next few months off, come back the day after the election. there was an opening. we had obamacare repealed. we had it. it was done. it was a done deal. they somehow figured out a way to snatch a loss out of the jaws of victory. then there was a win afterwards. romney's moment to take it and go, look, this is a tax, it's the largest tax increase on the american people, and they fumbled it. they called it's a penalty. so they really -- what they should do honestly, monica, governor romney should file the whole staff and talk to governor walker or chris christie across the river, say who are you working with? can i hire them, borrow those g

. >> and michael steele, how can obamacare be a tax and romneycare be a penalty?> yeah, well, good question and i think from the governor's perspective, he's looking at it from two levels. one is what states do and how states handle these matters and what the laws allow him to get away with and of course, the federal government and he's drawing a bright distinction between the federal government imposing a tax under the court's, government's taxes authority versus what they passed in the state of massachusetts, which was a penalty. it was not a deemed a tax to either ledge it latively by the courts there. i think that's the distinction he's drawn. >> wouldç he have said what he said without authorization? was he rogue or do you think he had authorization? >> look, the candidate himself had said this before and had sort of conceded that given what the court had done, he was going to call it a tax, but before it was a fine ft it's been all over the lot. fehrnstrom i think was just following what the candidate wanted. my guess is fehrnstrom will be off tv for a whil

issue of the supreme court's decision on healthcare because we know obamacare and mitt romney or romneycare cause a lot of problems for mitt romney. earlier in the week mitt romney's spokesperson called it a penalty, not a tax disagreeing with the majority opinion. mitt romney came back out and said no, no, it is a tax. it kind of opens him up to what he did in massachusetts now, doesn't it? >> it sure does. the spokesperson actual clint speak for himself. he said the governor -- didn't speak for himself. he said the governor feels it's a penalty. we can get into nomenclature and semantics and all this, but this is definitely change of position from what was supposedly his view immediately after the decision. i think the republican party hierarchy said look, you got to be consistent. this is ammunition you can use. call it what it is, a tax, and i think initially they didn't want to call it a tax because then they'd say when he was governor of massachusetts, levied a tax. he's now getting out of it by saying that the court said that the federal government can levy a tax, but states can levy

and mitt romney should be proud of the fact that he created romneycare. and now he is trying to pretend there is a major difference between romney care and obamacare. i'm sorry, mitt. there is no basic difference. >> >>? >> there is no basic differences differences. >> you ought to be proud of the individual mandate. it was your idea, your con caulktion and we borrowed it and the president is going to implement it and you are ashamed of it. you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> do you think these republicans who are saying now they want to repeat it,ets, do you think that issue is going to, in fact help democrats in november? >> well, i think it will in ohio. i can't speak for all of the other states. but i think ohioans are practical, pragmatic people and i think most americans are. and so they are going to be asking the question: this money is available. if we don't take it, it will go to other states. why is our governor standing in the way of accepting resources that could be used to help people in our state? the woman you talked about having met on

. >> well, when he implemented romneycare in massachusetts, romney said washington should let states create their own plans. based on today's jobs report, romney said obamacare is hurting the national recovery. he is not rooting for economic hardship but he will intensely focus on it when he returns from his campaign and hit the campaign trail next week. >> we look forward to your coverage next week. thank you. have a good weekend. a look at the average unemployment rate of first six months of the election year for the last five presidents seeking re-election and how it turned out. in 1980, democratic president jimmy carter lost with an average of 6.8% unemployment. four years later, republican ronald reagan won a second term as president with an average of # 7.7%. it had been over 10.0 the year before. bush lost to clinton with 7.5% average in the first six months. four years later, president clinton won re-election with 5.5% average. in 2004, republican george w. bush won re-election with 5 5.7%. president obama six-month unemployment rate average this year is at 8.2%. higher than

that's because romneycare is unpopular as ever and the president owns it. it is his signature achievement and for much of the first two years he set aside all other priorities including the economy to push it through congress. romney meanwhile has pledged to repeal it. despite the healthcare skeleton in his closet. the question is this. will voters who want to get rid of obamacare, vote for obama because they have misgivings about the romney record on the issue? it's like the economy. democrats take comfort from poles that show people blame president bush for the reinvestigation. but that is the wrong question. because the same people may also blame president obama for his failure to fix it. indeed, the polls suggest they do exactly that. which explain the job approval on the economy. the two issues are a burden on the incumbent. they are part of his record. if history is any guide, that record will decide the election. john? >> john: brit, what do you make of the conservative backlash against the chief justice or the decision he made regarding healthcare.

he never says romneycare. he's very happy to say obamacare. loaded like he -- he was talking to a group of tea party folks. i don't think he was really surprised by the booing. and -- certainly he scores points either way with middle of the road folks important just the fact he showed up. but had's making the outreach. george w. bush did it as a candidate but then went several years without showing up at the naacp as president. >> yes, he did. i remember. he went in 2000 and never appeared again. >> yeah. i think -- i at tend he may have appeared at the naacp group. yeah, you are right. basically, though, a lot of antipathy built up over the years because of that. romney is making the outreach. he gets points for that. he also is running against the first black president. and so the fact he shows up as important. he made good points. i thought the idea of school choice is a great issue to go after the black vote with because democrats are tied to the futures union, opposed to anything involved in choice. rank and file, black folks like it. the

people are still struggling with serious coverage problems, even under omabacare and romneycare, so it's not a solution. it's actually a distraction, intended to take the wind out of the sails of the real movement that is growing for health care as a human right through medicare for all. host: dr. jill stein joins us in our studios to talk about the green party platform and her candidacy. she announced that she was running in october 2011, at the nomination -- got the nomination yesterday at the convention in baltimore and will be talking to us about what's happening with the green party and her candidacy moving forward. and some of the challenges in breaking through the two-party system. if you have calls: here are the numbers: caller: i was wondering if the green party candidate were elected as president, she would govern cargoo i don't think there are any green party members in congress. there are none in the house of representatives, there are 435 house of representatives, there are no green party members there, there are no green party people in the senate. and further, i just wonde

laughter] >> and it's interesting, i mean, i keep -- well, all three of us have been critics of romneycare, and so probably mr. romney is not going to ask any of us to be secretary of hhs. [laughter] but, you know, i just can't understand why mr. romney will not say i thought it was a good idea for massachusetts. we have the evidence, and it's not good. so i'm, i made a mistake and, therefore, we're -- but he won't do that. very, very fright ping. so what i'm going to do is buy an old ship, not the one that crashed off the italian coast. i'm going to set up my liberty ship, and we can all get our health care on my liberty ship. >> i would also like to underscore i think what was said, this is why it is so critical that congress gets it right this summer. it will set a important tone on where the future of the health care system should go if the health care law can get repealed. and i will say, also, that it should be a cohesive plan and not just a kind of alphabet soup plan of everyone's idea that makes no sense. i think we need to be able to explain to the american people as has been done

he was the architect of romneycare. >> he was the architect of the original mandate.: we're sticking with barack obama. >> megyn, megyn, i'm going to answer your question. the point is it is a penalty under the tax authority. that's what the supreme court said, right, that they can use it legally under taxing authority. and let's just be clear about what this does measure. megyn: wait a minute. no, no. >> why can't i understand the question, megyn? megyn: because you're not being direct either. yes, he had the power under the commerce clause, but they went into the supreme court, simon and said it is valid as a tax in its own right. >> can i explain how it works and you decide? megyn: i want you to respond to the words. the words. >> i think it's a penalty. i'm answering your question. i think it's a penalty and not a tax. megyn: let me give it to you, marc. viewers can look at this for themselves, okay? here's what bothers me about this, mark. you can argue that, you know, it is one or it isn't one, and it's a good tax, or it's not a tax. but let's just be straight a

applause] >> in the debates unsure you're going to be hammered about what the other team likes to call romneycare. but why don't you make the point that that was what the people of massachusetts put you in their to do and you did with the people of massachusetts want you to do and didn't force it down somebody's throat? [applause] >> yeah, thank you. i sure hope the president brings it up, because, because i'll point out the differences between what we've did and what he did. what we did was work in a bipartisan basis. my legislature look at our bill, and of the 200 legislators, only two voted against it of 200. the business community, the labor community, the advocates for the poor all came together and said this is a good step forward. not perfect why a longish but and by the way, i vetoed a number of measures in the bill and those were upheld. but nontheless, it was something we worked out for our own state. i love the idea that the founders, founding fathers had of federalism, kind of a strange term to describe the fact that states are the places where we made key decisions that affect the li

and now the romney campaign is saying it is not a tax although romney called it a tax when it was romneycaremassachusetts that becomes neutral during the campaign. >> no, no. jon: hold on just a second. in the coverage though, rich, some conservative analysts are saying look, what the chief justice did is quash for all time the idea that you can employ the commerce clause to force americans to buy something. that did not pass under this ruling and by calling it a tax, he makes it possible for a future senate to overrule the thing, to throw it out on a 51-vote majority s that possible? >> what he gave with one hand he took away with another. i don't think it has a lot of meaning to say you can't compel people to byproducts under the commerce clause when you turn around and say okay, but under the taxing power it is just fine. the key question whether the federal government has so-called plenary police power to reach into individual lives and in that manner or not. and he went through verbal gymnastics to say yes it could despite all the verbiage conservatives like. draters of awe still don't

. >> reporter: analysts, however, say there are huge differences between obamacare and romneycare, theiggest of which is that the president had to raise a trillion dollars in revenues over the first ten years, more in later years to cover the costs. and governor romney didn't raise taxes at all. >> certainly, the obama plan that came out of congress raised taxes significantly. the romney plan was not predicated on having to use tax money to be able to finance it. >> taxes on health care plans, on health insurers, on medical device manufacturers, so he's got a whole host of new taxes in order to make this thing appear deficit neutral. >> reporter: now, massachusetts had 8% uninsured, and the romney plan focused on fixing that, not changing the entire health care system as the president's plan did. so whether you work for a large company or on your own, you would be impacted by the obamacare law. in massachusetts it really only affected the 8% that were uninsured. but some suggest that romney had help. listen. >> well, the federal government provided governor romney with hundreds of mill

manifestation of a continuing problem for mitt romney because what he passed in massachusetts, romneycare, has many features like mandates, penalties, subsidies, exchanges, that are, that it shares with obamacare and it is very difficult for romney to create a line and walk it in which he defends what he did as governor of massachusetts but criticizes what president obama has done with obamacare. jon: yeah, but isn't what the president says, isn't that, i mean, so much attention is being paid to whether or not mitt romney disagrees with his campaign aide, eric finnstrom, about whether this is a tax or not. but ultimately isn't president obama's position less tenable? >> absolutely. but we first have to find out exactly what president obama's position is. we heard his spokesman this morning and his campaign spokesman saying he disagrees with the supreme court to the extent he believes this is a penalty, not a tax. i think we'll have to hear from the president himself. see what he says about it. but, the president is going to have to be held to the same kind of scrutiny on this, that govern