how they picked the unsuspecting ron baker as their victim, wanted him to the tunnel, and supposedly and all hell broke loose. >> nathan jumped him, landed back onto the -- open no what to do. >> what was it like to hear him spit out that story. >> i had interviewed and taking confessions for many people over the years, confessed to serious crimes, robberies, homicides, sexual assault, but hearing him say that, for some reason i knew it was not -- bs. he was really telling the truth. and it caused me to step back, and say, did i really just hear that? >> was he emotional when he was telling you this. >> not at all. kind of, cold and calculating. he did not seem remorseful at all. >> even as he recounted ron's last desperate effort to survive. and his own instruction to nathan. >> i told nathan, you've got to finish him off or something, something like that because -- >> when he told nothing to cut his throat. >> for sure. and thinking about, it getting shivers. >> even now? >> yes, after 27 years. >> soon after, at the la police station, rick jackson received that precious audiotape.

ron from the family. they checked it with the coroner's office. to see if it matched any outstanding cases that they were handling. it did. they called the bakersg about if ron would've worn some earings. and a pendant. and he had done that. so then they came to see us. and tell us that his body had been found. >> is there any way to understand what that is like? >> it's devastating. >> then the bakers had to do the most difficult thing that they had ever done. >> we were asked to go to the coroner's office to identify him. >> ron baker, was just 21, their only son. ron was not your average victim, and this? not your average murder. >> when this thing first happened, we were just a few years past richard ramirez, the night stalker who is involved in pentagrams and things like that. and he had struck a couple of times in the valley. and that had gripped the town in fear. there was a little bit of, here we go again. >> yes, and there was something else about it too. the date. >> it was the evening of the summer solstice. there were rumors going around at times, that this could've been a sacrifice, due to the multiple stab wounds and the fact that

ron desantis. it is what it is. want to go to gerry baker, great thinker.e who is deemed to be a potential trump spoiler right now. that was the whole idea behind this. what do you make of it? >> yeah, look, i think there's real tension in the republican donor class. many of them are not enthusiastic about donald trump. they are fearful or him. they were look warm of them. many view him unelectable. i'm not sure that is right. >> neil: they same to go from flavor to flavor. candidate to candidate. now it's nikki haley. >> desantis was flavor of the month after the elections when he won in florida. people however have seen that star has faded. they were polling earlier this year. he was in the 30s, trump was in the 40s. looked like a contest. he's now down in the teens. nikki haley has done very well in the debates, had a very good fall. she's attracting more money. that's where the money goes. frankly, i still think it's a race for the silver medal in the republican contest, wooden spoon. doesn't look like they can -- >> neil: the koch brothers in their day

i proud father of the polk award winner feel baker, and i've just done a book about the biden white house, and it's often said that ron klain, joe biden's first chief of staff, could do any job in the white house. he could be white house counsel. he could be communications director. he could do almost anything. jack on the other hand, did almost every job in the obama white house, and did them awfully well. youkn know, peter well knows tht bad things can happen when a white house chief of staff decides to become treasury secretary. back in the reagan era, james baker the third after four years as white house chief of staff was so desperate to get out that he swapped jobs with don regan the treasury secretary, and what was without a doubt the worst job swap in american history. it's no coincidence that the iran-contra scandal erupted shortly thereafter. and never would've happened on jim baker's watch. i guess to as your question about the obama white house come one of things i would say, wearing my have as all of the gatekeepers, is that every president learns sometimes the hard way that you cannot govern effectively