o'donnell, nbc news white house correspondent, sahil kapur, and also with us, the nbc senior analyst, ron insana, thank for being with me. ron, what do these jobs numbers tell you about our recovery or non-recovery from the pandemic? >> jose, i think they're a little misleading. the nonforeign payroll number that you referenced, had some seasonal distortions in it. there were more teachers hired in august than september because of the change in the calendar for the school year. and when you look at a separate survey that the bureau of labor statistics does, the household survey, the number of unemployed people fell by 710,000. that's what got the unemployment rate down to 4.8%. so i think the number is weaker than expected, but better than it appears. and so wall street is trying to make head or tale of this, but it does suggest that the economy is on the mend, but with still some pandemic-related disruptions in the labor force that will take some time to work out. >> that 4.8 number is always interesting. the unemployment among african-americans and latino communities is always higher than that

for more on this, cnbc's ron insana. great to have you with us.s you well know, that have steadily lost ground in recent years, given antiunion legislation and corporate crackdowns on organizing. with companies struggling to find employees now, unions are finding new leverage. >> yes, employees of all stripes, whether unionized or not, are demanding more of the companies they work for, because we have pandemic-influenced situations that have created short supplies that you he mentioned before thecommercial break. also working conditions have become a very important area of concern with respect to what does the workplace of the future look like. a harris poll out earlier this week said 50% of americans are thinking of quitting their jobs, partly due to pay, the rest is flexibility, and also in the case of john deere, pension benefits, old-style pension benefits for new employees as well. all that have is coming into the mix again. >> as we talk about john deere, this is a company that saw record profits and now employees are asking for more pay and