you've got to remember t ron kerenga, the founder of kwanzaa, who just founded it in 166, was a blackaratist, who felt the black panthers didn't dislike white people enough. the group he founded wound up shooting a couple black panthers, he himself for committing physical violence against women, had to spend time in prison. the idea that our country would celebrate a special holiday created by this guy before he committed these acts of violence, and now we're going to say we must talk about this to the kindergarten children and how wonderful this holiday is, is ridiculous. >> you've got to admit the holidays itself didn't celebrate the founder, but the holiday itself. if the look at the aspirin else. principles. that sounds pretty nice. >> if you go through ramblings of some people, you can say -- but when you have a horrible person who founded this new holiday solely to promote or in part to promote his goofy ideology, i think we all would have to agree that most americans wouldn't choose to celebrate it. what proof do you have, though, sir, that he founded this holiday solely to pro