ronald sullivan and mary frances berry f. for the moment thank you both so much for sharing your initial reaction to this verdict with us here on al-jazeera i'd just like now to go to our correspondent who was always outside the courthouse and just also talk through some of the pictures that we are seeing really pictures of jubilation outside the courthouse the verdict the guilty on all 3 charges for derek chauvin john hendren tell me a little bit about what you're seeing at where you are and i guess your reaction as well to this verdict you of course have been following this trial for the past 3 weeks. well the good people who come by here have been extraordinarily emotional i think they've been pessimistic for so many years about so many police incidents where black men in particular but african-americans in general have been killed at the hands of police and. what we've heard is a real celebration but also a surprise i don't think people expected a guilty verdict on all 3 counts and so you're you're seeing some of that spi

to leave it there thank you so much for your analysis and joining us there from massachusetts ronald sullivan there in the united states thank you much hold on to rise killing happened less than 20 kilometers from the ongoing murder trial of derrick chauvin the former police officer charged in the death as we've been hearing of george floyd last year on weapons day a retired pathologist testified floyd died from preexisting heart disease they would follow was a witness for the defense he said he believes floyd's condition was made worse by exhaust fumes driven is accused of murdering floyd by kneeling on his neck for more than 9 minutes. still to come here on al-jazeera afghan share their hopes and fears for the future after washington confirms the withdrawal of u.s. forces. and the government promises justice for the victims of a fire as a school in the share. winter has not let go of north america this is all wintry weather and he's slowly curling through the plains states in the upper midwest this is what you want expect springs under storms and the difference is because the difference in

ronald sullivan professor of law and director of criminal justice institute at harvard law school and former attorney's office michael brown family as always thank you for sharing your views with us thank you thank you. and let me just remind you of the breaking news story that we have had in the past hour and a half or so the jury returned the verdict in the derek chauvelin case over the killing of george floyd guilty on all serene counts. their show of in has since been remanded in custody taken out of the courtroom and in handcuffs and the judge said that sentencing should happen about 8 weeks from now obviously there has been an incredible response to the verdict the crowds literally crying with joy outside of the courthouse we know that president biden called the floyd family to say he was so relieved we are expecting to hear from joe biden in the next half hour or so that is it from london my colleagues and though we'll have more on the story stay with us here on al-jazeera. 3 year investigation into the pro-gun lobby i've been in florida is moving to start to really. reveal sec

outside the courthouse there in minneapolis gave for the moment thank you let's go to ronald sullivan who's a professor of law and director of the criminal justice institute at harvard law school he joins me now by skype from newton in massachusetts great to have you back with us what have you made of the testimonies that we've heard over the past hour. well the prior speaker is absolutely right we are moving into a different phase of the trial what's going on here is that they are trying to establish that their colvin killed george floyd that he was dead and when the 1st responders i got there they were attempting to revive him into recess a datum so i had to go into a lot of detail but here's what's going to happen each of these little detail pieces are part of a narrative part of a story there's a famous saying by an evidence professor called wigmore the world's most famous evidence professor and it's this a brick is not a wall the entire case theory is like a law and the prosecution is trying to build that theory brick by brick by brick and then in the end they're going to be able

inside of trial ok thank you so much professor for talking to us about the sanctifier inside ronald sullivan is a professor of law and criminal justice at harvard law dissecting the day's proceedings at the derrick shelvin trial for us said the child getting underway for a 3rd week now the child of the former minneapolis police officer accused of killing george floyd well have plenty more on this and the day's other news stories here on al-jazeera after this very short break i hope you to stay with us thanks for watching. jumped into the story there was a lot going on in this and julia not global community when i don't have all the misinformation i think we are more afraid than we are and where it be part of the debate don't ever take anybody's one word because there's always a difference when no topic is off the table we have been disconnected from our land we have been disconnected from who we are good enough to heed the new and you to be part of today's discussion this dream on out is there. when the covert 19 pandemic hit iran. a filmmaker cut adrift from his crew began documenting life

castiel was shot and killed during a traffic stop the officer was cleared of murder let's speak to ronald sullivan who's a professor of law and director of the criminal justice institute at harvard law school joins us live now via skype from newton in massachusetts so important moments as we've been discussing on the program so far but is it a turning point in history can we be that optimistic. i didn't think we could be that optimistic it indeed is an important moment significant moment a moment that symbolize a something important is a turning point yet that's premature there's a lot of work that still needs to be done that that list you just read was sobering absolutely sobering. in order to really achieve justice we as a country here in the united states we have to roll up our collective sleeves and get to work this is an important starting point but a starting point it is there's there's much work to be done this sense from some that it's a few bad apples within the police force. is that right or is it is it systemic within the force. it's the latter it's systemic the few bad apples. metaphor

joining me now is ronald sullivan is in, a law professor at the harvard law school who joins us fromusetts flat skype. we heard -- via skype. we heard derrick shoving's -- the team of derek chauvin focusing on the underlying health conditions of george floyd. tell us how they try to take aim at the prosecution position that it was a lack of oxygen that caused the death of george floyd? >> the defense did two things. one, they attempted and did point out that the medical examiner's conclusion was different than the other expert witnesses, that the government produced. so, the other said it was is fixed yet, due to lack of -- asphyxia, due to lack of oxygen. the corner said it was the heart failing to stop as a function of stress, from the officers. so, he pointed out the difference. second, the defense did a pretty good job, allowing, or inviting the jury to allow for the possibility that there may have been other factors at play. so, they did a good job there. unfortunately, even though the two opinions were different, the medical examiner versus the other experts, both said that the

but we need the political will to make it happen runaway to get to get your thoughts on this ronald sullivan professor of law and the director of the criminal justice institute at harvard law school. thank you much plenty more ahead on the news hour including hong kong's prominent pro-democracy figures sentence for their role in anti-government protests back in 2019. 62 years after the revolution began the last keep as castro brothers get ready to formally step aside. and it's all the united have given themselves another chance of ending their losing run in the semifinals. politicians opposed to military formed a national unity government and includes ousted members of the parliament young leaders of the protests an ethnic minorities the animal has been gripped by a political turmoil and bloodshed since the military deposed elected leaders in a coup in february security forces have killed more than 700 people since then. an organization that has opposed the takeover by myanmar's military on february 1st have announced the formation of a national unity government a body that will work to remo

ronald sullivan the rector of the criminal justice institute at the harvard law school sir always good to talk to you thank you thank you barbara. well coming up on this news hour from london russian opposition leader alexina rounding is transferred to a prison hospital amid a growing international concern for his health chaotic scenes in new delhi ahead of a 6 day lockdown as india reports almost 274000 new covert infections and tottenham sakit just say moody no we'll have the latest in sports with general . 11 news cuba's governing communist party has elected me. to succeed role castro as its 1st secretary the as has already served as president since 2018 and now takes on the most powerful position in the country this accession marks the end of 6 decades of rule by the castro brothers feed ellenborough who led cuba's 959 revolution the cuban government is currently under increasing pressure especially from younger generations to make reforms well let's go live now to ed augustine who joins us from have on that so ed what this is appointment actually mean for cuba is it likely to lead

ronald sullivan is a professor of law at the harvard law school and he joins us now by skype from newtonssachusetts. as always, thank you for being with us. what did you think of those lengthy final statements from both the prosecution and the defense? doesn't it help to be more succinct when you are summing things up for the jury? >> i think both wore too long. i agree with you and your reporter that they went on and on. the ideal closing would have been at about an hour. that would've been plenty of time to sum up everything. the reason they went so long, i will share a secret with you, hardest thing for a trial lawyer to do is to sit down. it is a tough scale for lawyers because they want to make sure that they have everything that they wanted to see in front of the jury. the risk of that though is that the jury becomes either bored or annoyed. but again, this critique is along the margins. both sides tried a very solid case. anchor: both lawyers they had the eyes of the country but also of the worlds. the case has become symbolic. it all now hinges on the jury. i think the defense at

on al-jazeera we are staying with this story as it develops well in the meantime let's go to ronald sullivan professor of law and director of the criminal justice institute at the harvard law school who joins us now via skype from newton massachusetts thank you so much for being with us did it surprise you that the jury reached a verdict in what is relatively speaking a very short period of time. it's an extraordinarily short period of time yes indeed it did surprise me in a normal case a very quick verdict is usually a good sign for the defense it's usually an acquittal jurist in the take their time before they convict someone in effectively put them in jail for years and years and years that's in the normal case though there's absolutely nothing normal about this case so it's nearly impossible to predict what i will say though given the very short period of time i imagine the prosecution is very nervous because they too are used to quick verdicts meeting a in acquittal on them we're seeing people gathering outside the courthouse now and we've also had even in the past 24 hours for example

ok john thank you very much for that john hendren my forest say in minneapolis let's speak to ronald sullivan are professor of law and criminal justice at harvard law school professor since we spoke last time there's been now body cam footage dramatic footage of the latest shooting in minnesota where a black man was killed after being shot by police authorities there saying it was accidental that the officer who shot his gun at the black man meant to shoot a taser this is happening of course says the show vein child is continuing in minneapolis but certainly not a good look and not a good thing for the defense said this event happened on the day this trial was resuming. not at all you're absolutely right there's to my estimation no way that the jurors will not hear about that in other words they're they're going to do their darndest to stay off of social media not read the newspapers etc but the news channels are absolutely inundated with this story it's local it's a 20 minute drive from where the jurors are so they will hear about it and it has the potential to be triggering for that communi

little bit late on really appreciate it and appreciate your analysis ronald sullivan of course the proceedings in the trial of their show the now entering their 10th day and as you've been hearing that the focus has really been on the specific cause of death witnesses now repeated the ongoing floyd died from a lack of oxygen and that narcotics did not cause his death as break and proceedings that but they will resume coming up next on al-jazeera from we're going to bring you much more on that trial taking place in minneapolis in minneapolis a little bit later along with the day's other headlines as well i think now. has viktor orban killed the marc received hungry i'll ask the international spokesperson for the hunger in government. morcombe on hill also on the show the united states congress is reviewing legislation that will consider paying money to the descendants of enslaved africans such reparations ever happen and are they the best way to remove these historical injustices that's our debate but 1st. there are a lot of media minorities and political institutions press that prime minister

on the ground thank you so much alan fischer following proceedings there in minneapolis and at ronald sullivan as a no professor and director of criminal justice and change to harvard law school joins us now from his massachusetts massachusetts via skype so course the defense strategy is to argue the existing health issues and not the actions of the police cause the death of george floyd is the prosecution and this witness testimony succeeding in countering that bar of reasonable doubt. absolutely this was great i mean great testimony for the prosecution people were worried because this report the report that dr baker filed at the time of the incident just didn't mention the expect as as a cause of the death so people were worried about the extent to which the defense would be able to score a lot of points with this witness but. this witness clearly and unequivocally said at the end of his testimony that heart disease that not was not the major cause of death and that fit not was not the major cause of death they may have contributed he said but the major cause of death was the lack of oxygen

ronald sullivan is a professor of law and director of criminal justice institute at harvard law school he says the state has acted swiftly but not fast enough to ease the anger on the streets. let me be clear this this culpable negligence then storage is a homicide charge so homicide in the united states is graded so there are different gradations of homicide with the top count of homicide being intentional murder that's like you know hiding in a bush and jumping out and shooting somebody you know wanting to do it intending to do it and then the charges are graded down still homicide but the notion is that people are more or less culpable depending on what's going on inside their head so this is a lower level murder charge but still a homicide charge they immediately release the body warrant cameras and they charge this officer very quickly normally it takes a long time before the state will charge an officer what we're seeing on the screen now is people are just simply fed up with the way in which black bodies are treated in the united states and the back to back to back homicides una

the latest they are following the trial in minneapolis for escaped thank you let's go back to ronald sullivan professor of law and director of the criminal justice institute at harvard law school joining us by skype from newton in massachusetts sir great to talk to you again i mean we saw in the earlier testimony by george floyd's girlfriend courtney ross the issue of drugs come up which almost invariably we are going to see more of when that the fence have their time mainly in court just remind us when it comes to the prosecution actually getting a guilty verdict for the 2 tougher charges so murder $2.00 and $3.00 what is it that they have to prove when it comes to the issue of drugs do they have to prove that it might have been a factor but not the main one just talk us through it these. right well they have to prove that the drugs were not the cause of death but rather something else was the cause of death so drugs may have contributed in the sense that his body was in a particular condition but there is a concept in the law that says that you take your victim where he is in civil law they

you wouldn't well certainly hope that we would be talking about this again but for the moment ronald sullivan law professor and the director of criminal justice institute at harvard law school sir thank you thank you barbara. coming up on this news hour from london izzy the man to unite an israeli government the president down sit. still gets them on the. fears of an oil slick off the coast of norway after crew members abandoned ship in rough water in. sudan says ethiopia is a unilateral moves over its may get them including filling it again where a violation of international law after 2 days of talks between ethiopia sudan and egypt the country's a failed to reach an agreement is u.p. a bill to the renascence dam to produce electricity but its neighbors fear that it will impact on their water supply hippa morgan has more now from car too. sudan is thing that would if europe is trying to do is try to impose a reality on the 3 countries especially sudan in egypt it says that the rounds of talks have produced no breakthrough they've been holding talks for 3 days that effectively it was set to e

hendren following developments there for us as the trial continues in minneapolis joining me now is ronald sullivan a law professor and the director of criminal justice institute at the harvard law school he joins us from nice in massachusetts via skype and of course we heard derek show vins defense team focusing be today on george floyd's existing health conditions underlying health conditions tell us more about how they try to take a the the prosecution's position that it was it is. a lack of oxygen that caused the death of george floyd. well the defense did 2 things one they attempted and actually did point out that the medical examiners conclusion was different then the other expert witnesses that the government produced so the other said that it was x. fixie or due to lack of oxygen in this corner see if that it was the heart failing to stop as a function of stress from the officers so he pointed out the difference 2nd the fit's did a pretty good job of allowing or inviting the jury to allow for the possibility that there may have been other factors at play so they did a good job there unfortu

is they ronald son of an a professor of law and the director of the criminal justice institute at the harvard law school he's on skype from newton massachusetts nice to see you again mr sullivan to be with you who won the drugs argument today because this was the key wasn't it this was all about as i said to gabriel the prosecution getting out in front of this knowing that they were going to have to deal with it trying to deal with it and then having to deal with the cross from the defense. yeah absolutely so we called him the field pulling the sting so the prosecutor attempted to pull this thing with respect information that he knew was going to come in in terms of who won the day the defense got a lot of points today by putting george threw it on trial and his drug use on trial so all trials are a battle of narratives who tells the best story who tells a story that best resonates with the jury and the defense actually scored some points today with information about george floyd's drug use now the prosecution has to come back and say ladies and gentlemen this case is not about drug use this case is about a need to a man's neck that constricted his breathing so much that he d