with rosemary ridge. coordinator at memorial university and he found them dissociate scientific director of the canadian stage but it seems the research and treatment we're talking about whether it's currently in place actually makes this a safer and better rosemary continued societal line since we're trying to understand whether prisoners are should be a tool for retribution or rehabilitation but isn't the idea of reputation of a criminal in itself a bit forward and show the perpetrators isn't the victim here right so really they're not the ones needing reputation are they well. i think if i syrian crackly is you're saying only look at the perpetrator of the crime ah. had to get the sympathy for the ring that person is also a victim in written need of reality and the reality is money look at prisoners and a colleague of mine is doing research and in our in alberta bronzer she found an upper it's beyond 90 percent of the persons incarcerated experience the 1st chance in events if you look at their meeting