nana over several years with what's been going on with rosie duffield? the wolves, it seems to me, and i think there's lots of words being said and lots of words being said and lots of words being said and lots of clever words being said, but we need to see action here. and i believe that the labour party is standing for women. when keir starmer is in canterbury, knocking on doors, canvassing and delivering leaflets. that will show me by starmer's actions that he actually cares about women and cares about rosie duffield , cares about rosie duffield, because he's not the only one in his party that sort of backed the whole idea of the sort of the whole idea of the sort of the trans trans ideology, which is, you know, it's fair enough . is, you know, it's fair enough. >> i don't there's nothing wrong with someone who chooses to be trans or who is trans, but the point is that the support for women does in some respects seem to be lacking on some occasions, or not being able to identify that a woman has a cervix seems a bit odd. let's go to you, katy. john wa

taking people back, late appear loses whip after calling rosie duffield frith or lazy. s lord cashman. and basically, yeah, rosie duffy, she. duffield. sorry. rosie duffield , she duffy is my wife's duffield, she duffy is my wife's maiden name , and i just i feel maiden name, and i just i feel such affinity for rosie duffield. >> stella duffy . >> stella duffy. >> stella duffy. >> yeah. and stella duffy is my save. so did you know that i didn't know. there she is. that's my next wife. so little shout out there, but, yes, rosie duffield, who is a sort of hero fighting for women's rights over the last years . and it's, it's the last years. and it's, it's cost her arguably. abuse, well, arguably she has been abused , arguably she has been abused, including by members of the labour party, even mps , and she labour party, even mps, and she is not able to go to a hustings or pulled out of a hustings through, safety fears and then lord cashman stepped in and was i and accused her of being lazy and as opposed to or frit, which is a slang word for afraid, right? >> yeah, yeah. >>

rosie duffield's comments were toxic.said the debate, he had said that in the past, and indeed he has said in the past, but he's actually she shifted his position. he won't admit this, but he's definitely shifted his position. i think jk rowling is actually won the debate here in a very large sense, including with keir starmer, where they're very scared to just do anything. >> the problem with with keir starmer is he says that, starmer is he he says that, well, listened what tony well, i've listened to what tony blair and tony said that blair said and tony said that men penises and women have men have penises and women have vaginas. so i think i'll vaginas. so yeah, i think i'll agree with tony blair that i agree with tony blair that i agree with tony blair that i agree with that. it's not true. >> he actually said that long before tony blair's comments, he moved his position a year to two years ago. >> it's nothing to do >> so it's got nothing to do with tony blair. >> debate basically said, oh, uncle tony said it, so it

and the trouble is that when he made those remarks to rosie duffield, it was 2021.s ago, and the atmosphere was very different then in the discussion about trans rights. >> so she said only women have a cervix. and he said, you shouldn't say that. that's not something you should say. >> now, at that stage, he was trying to rebuild the party and make labour electable. he was seeing off the left wing and i think he , he, he, he, he came think he, he, he, he, he came down on the wrong side, actually in, in not supporting what rosie duffield said. but i think he was just trying to get as many votes as he could from whoever to get support. so, so the red wall people, he was not going to say that he wanted brexit. he wanted to go back into europe. and i think he's been caught out. and i think the what's what's the party has decided is that they'll use tony blair. they've probably discussed it with tony blair. what can i do to say we'll use me and tony blair as regard, you know, as a very successful prime minister, you know, kind of not quite father of the party at this st

you've also had the situation, in the labour party where you've had rosie duffield.t comfortable attending hustings. you had a labour, i think it was a lord, a labour peen he think it was a lord, a labour peer. he basically called her frit or lazy. i think it was. and he got into a lot of trouble for that. i'm talking about lord cashman. do you think the parties are doing enough to take care of their candidates? well i think it's a job largely for the police and the parliamentary authorities. >> there's something called plates, which operates from within parliament and whether people are candidates or, whether they're standing for re—election. i do think we need to be doing more, just generally across the board to protect everyone. that's putting themselves forward and not just themselves, but their families, too. and we heard, in court yesterday, the story of the experience of the family of keir starmer and how they had experienced protests that had taken place outside his house and how that had impacted on his children as well. so i think for many different reasons

and i specifically asked him for gb news how when the labour mp rosie duffield had said that only womene a cervix, he had said that's not right and that shouldn't be said. now that was a woman saying that when a man, tony blair, made a very similar point , saying a woman has a vagina and a man has a penis , and he and a man has a penis, and he said, i agree with tony blair. so i asked him very specifically what the difference was between those two statements. let's have a look at what he had to say. >> i think it's very important in all political debate that we treat all views with respect and all people with dignity, and that's what i've tried to do throughout this. i'm very proud of the progress that we've made as a labour party , as labour as a labour party, as labour governments in the past. when it comes to women's rights. i'm conscious that the battle on women's rights is never over. we need to make further progress in this country and i hope if we're able to win the general election, we will do so. but what i want to do is to ensure that we make that progress by persuading people

we recently saw rosie duffield, the labour mp, having to withdraw from her own hustings because of the, at harassment she has received, at the hands of activists. she's had to hire her own private security. and as she posted about this. but to just give you about this. but to just give you a sense of the problems within the labour party, you had a labour peer, michael cashman, replying to this or discussing her withdrawal from her own hustings. duffield's withdrawal, saying she's probably frightened or lazy. the phrase was frit or lazy. now i should say he deleted that tweet and apologised . what is going apologised. what is going through? the head of a labour peen through? the head of a labour peer, a senior labour peer, suggesting that a woman who receives death and rape threats is effectively lazy and can't be bothered going to his own hustings. and can keir starmer take a hold of this kind of thing ? can can he, can he do thing? can can he, can he do something about that? >> well, we would encourage him to do so and we salute wes streeting for unequivocally condemning this as he as

the labour mp rosie duffield , who has faced threats duffield, who has faced threats for her gender viewso discuss this is my panel me now to discuss this is my panel. aubrey allegretti , alice panel. aubrey allegretti, alice demby and candice holdsworth and candace , one assumes that this candace, one assumes that this won't make much difference to the election result, but i think it's nonetheless a remarkable political event. it's a pretty thorough going attack . it's thorough going attack. it's extraordinarily personal, by the way. it also embraces a number of other members of the shadow cabinet. she goes into quotations from them, things that they were saying a couple of years ago, may it at least make a difference to the policies of a labour government? is she putting a future labour government on notice ? on warning? >> she is. and it's significant because most of the, most of the gender critical movement, largely, though not exclusively, is made up of people of the left, particularly women of the left. and jk rowling is a very prominent person within that. and they have been they'v

if you remember, sir keir starmer was asked about his previous criticism of rosie duffield, the formerr candidate for canterbury in kent, she has said that only women have a cervix and sir keir starmer privacy criticised her for making those remarks. he has changes position and said that biologically, she was right but that he was concerned about the toxicity of this debate around gender identity and thatis debate around gender identity and that is why he criticised her. jk rowling not convinced by that and saying, if you choose to patronise rather than address women's concerns, i don't trust your judgment and i have a poor opinion of your character. writing in the times is paper today, that makes the front page today. this is a very sensitive issue for the labour party because there are deep divisions within the party over the question of gender identity and particularly self identification. the party has changed its stance. it says in the manifesto it would not allow self identification, which is someone can change their identity without a medical certificate, it would protect single

talking about rosie duffield, who was a labour mp who was absolutely hammered really over this. over the threats and abuse. some of which originated from within the labour party itself and has had a severe, measurable impact on her life. what do you think of jk rowling's intervention? >> well, i mean, jk rowling obviously has been so vocal about this for so long and she's going to take this as a big opportunity. obviously, she's on the front page for a reason , but the front page for a reason, but i think that going, you know, going against keir starmer on this is, is slightly unfair. and i think that he actually explained his standpoint a bit, on question time the other day when he said that what he disagreed with was the way that, rosie duffield actually the remarks that she actually made , remarks that she actually made, because it's quite dangerous to say certain things and you've got to kind of acknowledge, especially when we're talking about these type of things as politicians, to respect. >> i'm not entirely sure of the figure on this, but i it seems to be ringing a bell

she is a very strong supporter of rosie duffield, the labour mp, sorry, the labour candidate, who believeas not been supported by the labour party. jk been supported by the labour party. jk rowling might actually have a bit of impact? she jk rowling might actually have a bit of imact? ,, . ., , jk rowling might actually have a bit ofimact? ,, . ., y,, ., jk rowling might actually have a bit ofimact? ,, . . y,, ., ., of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of peeple _ of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of people and _ of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of people and there _ of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of people and there are - of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of people and there are a - of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of people and there are a lot. of impact? she clearly speaks for a lot of people and there are a lot of| lot of people and there are a lot of people _ lot of people and there are a lot of people who take our views very seriously — people who take our views very seriously. to that extent, yes, she may well_ seriously. to that extent, yes, s

was there in the spin room, and keir starmer got a question about comments he had made about rosie duffielden women's rights campaigner. and so i do think as they make that transition into government, these questions and the divisions frankly within labour about how to handle them are only going to become more pressing because they won't be able to say, well, this is our view on the government's guidance. it becomes this is what we're doing. and if they win, which might be in 11 days' time, they will no longer be able to say, well, we don't have access to all of the information, which has been quite a regular response from labour spokespeople in the last couple of years. so here's a gotcha in reverse then. what, a cha—got? j.k rowling... yes, that's right, a cha—got. i can see you're taking revenge for the 315. but if labour can be asked the right series of questions in the 11 days that remain, they could be embarrassed on the front page of the mail again. well, we always try to ask the right series of questions. have you sitting there saying, well, if... but just to say that j.k rowling's

was there in the spin room, and keir starmer got a question about comments he had made about rosie duffielda very outspoken women's rights campaigner. and so i do think as they make that transition into government, these questions and the divisions frankly within labour about how to handle them are only going to become more pressing because they won't be able to say, well, this is our view on the government's guidance. it becomes this is what we're doing. and if they win, which might be in 11 days' time, they will no longer be able to say, well, we don't have access to all of the information, which has been quite a regular response from labour spokespeople in the last couple of years. so here's a gotcha in reverse then. what, a cha—got? j.k rowling... yes, that's right, a cha—got. i can see you're taking revenge for the 315. but the, if, if labour can be asked the right series of questions in the 11 days that remain, they could be embarrassed on the front page of the mail again. well, we always try to ask the right series of questions. have you sitting there saying, well, if... but just to

was there in the spin room, and keir starmer got a question about comments he had made about rosie duffield outspoken women's rights campaigner. and so i do think as they make that transition into government, these questions and the divisions frankly within labour about how to handle them are only going to become more pressing because they won't be able to say, well, this is our view on the government's guidance. it becomes this is what we're doing. and if they win, which might be in 11 days' time, they will no longer be able to say, well, we don't have access to all of the information, which has been quite a regular response from labour spokespeople in the last couple of years. so here's a gotcha in reverse then. what, a cha—got? j.k rowling... yes, that's right, a cha—got. i can see you're taking revenge for the 315. but the, if, if labour can be asked the right series of questions in the 11 days that remain, they could be embarrassed on the front page of the mail again. well, we always try to ask the right series of questions. have you sitting there saying, well, if... but just to say th

i mean, we had the conversation between him and rosie duffield.only women can have a cervix. he said that's not right. he was then asked if women had penises. he said 99.9% of women don't. it's just very . then there's the it's just very. then there's the tony blair comment. women have vaginas, men have penises. he said he agreed with that. >> i think he is very conflicted. he is all over the place on this , and people are place on this, and people are all over the place when they don't have convictions and when they're just trying to tell people what they want to hear. that's what you see with keir starmer. that's why we call him flip flop starmer. so what does this person want to hear? i will tell them that. and then you move to a different audience and so you're all over the place. he is not he has not routed those comments in any conviction. and that's why i don't trust what he says.i that's why i don't trust what he says. i don't trust what he says. >> you're clearly a woman of conviction, and you're being touted as a future leader of the con

i mean, i know rosie duffield very well. on, on the select committee that i used to chair , and i know that i used to chair, and i know her well. she's a really lovely woman , and she believes woman, and she believes naturally in biological. the difference between woman and man. and make sure that you have the right spaces for women. and so she should be able to go to the hustings because, i mean, our politics is very much about, you know, constituency based so that you go to your meetings. people can, you know, disagree with you. they can shout, abuse at you if you want to. hopefully not too much. but you know that is okay to some degree. but you mustn't stop people from being frightened to go because this is not democracy. this is just trying to frighten people. just because you disagree with somebody, that doesn't mean you should threaten them in any way, shape or form. yes, argue very strongly with them. but this is different. this is, and i think it's very, very worrying. and i think the point you were making earlier on

so tonight, rosie duffield, the kent labour candidate, she , said that she candidate, she, said thato any hustings in the constituency because she fears abuse. and i think you're seeing lots of these examples . and lots of these examples. and there needs to be a reckoning that a democracy does not mean you can shout at people who put themselves forward for public office. but do you not think that you have stoked up that sentiment? >> because actually, rosie duffield, were she to appear on this show and speak about her views around sex and gender, you'd be telling her she's a bigot. >> yeah, and that's my right, because that's a democratic act. >> well, you just said we need to speak nicer to politicians because that's quite different to shouting at someone in the street or at hustings. >> and she'd be entitled to say the same back if she might think it. but that's quite different to people that don't seem to know where the line is, who shout and abuse politicians. >> you know the hypocrisy of all of this, particularly from the labour group. and we've seen a lot of them online over th

rosie duffield throne, you know, just thrown under the bus. women in the party.party meet secretly to discuss these issues and have a secret whatsapp group because they are afraid of what happened to rosie duffield happening to them. so you know how can they be trusted on this issue? they change all the time. >> okay, benjamin, is it not fair for people to say that a vote for labour means a vote for more blokes in women's changing rooms and kids being taught all this trans tosh? >> no, that's a nasty slur worthy of worthy of kelvin mackenzie. and the things he would write in the sun in the 19805 would write in the sun in the 1980s about gay people. it is a nasty and unnecessary comment that doesn't help anybody , trans that doesn't help anybody, trans kids or otherwise. you know, the fact is, for a start , about the fact is, for a start, about the two doctor thing is that, as a gp said on this channel, the other day, who's gender critical, the second doctor would typically just sign off what the first one has done. after a proper assessment, a specialist doctor.

canterbury show, the canterbury constituency was indeed mentioned in the context of labour candidate rosie duffieldther candidates in that constituency are luke buchanan hodgman, the social democratic party, louise harvey quirke, the conservative candidate, bridget porter, the reform uk candidate henry stanton for the greens, ross timpson for the liberal democrats . now, after the break, democrats. now, after the break, we'll be taking a look at the clash of political titans. it's bofis clash of political titans. it's boris johnson versus nigel farage, but who has the upper hand? find out break. welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation at 820. i'm tom harwood today. nation at 820. i'm tom harwood today . the fairly dull election today. the fairly dull election campaign threatened to burst into life when nigel farage took aim at boris johnson after the former prime minister accused the reform leader of spreading kremlin propaganda. let's have look. >> a man called boris johnson . >> a man called boris johnson. has said that i am morally repugnant . has said that i am mor

we've had problems with rosie duffield, the labour candidate in canterbury, i believe, who seems to havehas been complaining that she couldn't attend. she can't have a dialogue with the labour leader about this . there was leader about this. there was then the controversy over whether or not a woman has got a cervix, or a man has got a cervix, or a man has got a cervix, and a lot of confusion in that direction. the other thing about this, theo, is when i looked at the labour manifesto, the actual paragraphs, relevant paragraphs on transgenderism are quite woolly. yeah. on one hand, we've had keir starmer saying we do not want to introduce self—identification in through the back door. that's a sort of attack on what nicola sturgeon tried to do with the snp in scotland. but at the same time, anneliese dodds is basically suggesting that under a labour government you could get a gender recognition certificate if you go to one doctor. yes, and have it affirmed, which strikes me that it might be self—id by the back door. >> so, so, so at the moment you need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from

but the fact is, as rowling is pointing out, they're still not supportive of rosie duffield and they're still very dodgy on this issue, fundamentally. >> all right, let's have a look at the daily mail. nick, what's their front page. >> yeah, they've got farage. the west provoked putin. so apparently there's fury as reform leader as leo would say. it suggests nato was to blame for invasion. so this was a bbc panorama interview. and everyone's going mental because farage says something. it's actually fairly, straight. it's not that controversial. people like peter hitchens have said it. he's saying that we expanded eastwards further than agreed, which many people think, you know, expansion of nato and so on.and know, expansion of nato and so on. and he said, it's still putin's fault, of course, but he said, you know, ten years ago he predicted this, and no one listened to him. and he was right type of thing. so it's not that he loves putin, it's that the it's this argument. the west had a hand in it as well. and of course, everyone's going mad. >> yeah. i mean, are we the front page is at

well, she was a bit toxic about rosie duffield.er's got a thing with women . women. >> do you think that his performance is seriously eating into his so—called poll lead? that we keep seeing ? because that we keep seeing? because every time he seems to speak, he does himself damage and rishi sunakis does himself damage and rishi sunak is just as bad, let's be honest. but rishi sunak, in everybody's mind, has already lost. there's nothing there. that's what the polls say. but with keir starmer, he's everything to lose now. >> now i don't think anything is budging. the polls for keir starmer. i actually think people had decided this election before their election was announced by rishi sunak . their election was announced by rishi sunak. i don't think anything's going to push any keir starmer's lead now . he keir starmer's lead now. he could say pretty much anything and still don't know about that. >> and i don't think the polls are decided. most people are here on the street, people i speak to say i don't know who to vote for. i hav

there'll be this lurch to the left, if you like. >> rosie duffield has been treated incredibly. >> thelabour mp for canterbury. >> the candidate? yeah, she's now she's she's remaining a candidate for the labour party. but clearly she has had a really difficult time. she has to have security. she's not been able to take part in hustings because of the threats against her, she did have talks with keir starmer recently after three years being kind of left out in the cold. those talks did not go well, she, she's still not really had any support from the party. and then we saw keir starmer when he was asked about, you know, what is a man, what is a woman after all these years of women in his own party telling him, you know, the ins and outs of this debate, he only could seemingly come to a conclusion when tony blair, a man, told him what a woman was. >> extraordinary. >> extraordinary. >> yeah. so it's clear that women don't really have. you know, influence with him in perhaps the way they should. >> and yet his deputy leader is a woman, his shadow chancellor is a woman. >> she is. she is a

also if rosie duffield is owed an apology after his apparent volte face on this issue in recent weeksssue in recent weeks, and he did not want to talk about it. as he said at the beginning, tom, this is an issue which labour would really rather steer clear of. >> yes . and also i've seen >> yes. and also i've seen a shadow ministers being asked about jk rowling s comments. so of course, the harry potter author, who has a huge following, she accused the labour party of abandoning women and now shadow ministers are having to answer to that . having to answer to that. >> well, exactly. this is really, really awkward for the labour party. jk rowling is has been for a long time known as one of the labour party's most famous supporters . she gave famous supporters. she gave i can't remember exactly the sum of money, but a huge sum of money to tom watson's campaign when he was campaigning to be deputy leader of the labour party in recent weeks and months she has been very, very critical of labour's stance on women's rights. and actually yesterday in the sunday times, she wrote a piece sugges

particularly when it comes to those campaigning for pro—palestinian sort of causes, equally, we had rosie duffieldattend her hustings in canterbury this week because she feared the reaction from some campaigners in response to what she said about the transgender debate. and yet i've spoken to mps and they feel there's an inconsistency when it comes to sort of parliamentary advice and guidance on security. sometimes they have a surgery and there are people outside and sometimes there are not. it's asking too much of the police to be policing every mp surgery across the length and breadth of the land. but does more have to be done ? because it strikes me that done? because it strikes me that they are becoming increasingly vulnerable ? vulnerable? >> jul yeah, well, the constituent services across the country, as you say, do now need to be policed. that is the sad reality. but you're right that there is a real inconsistency and misunderstanding and that can be within police forces. and i think the wider way in which all of us look at, the need, the right to protest and the right to freedom of speech,

so i think they are defending keir starmer�*s comments, he argued that his criticism of rosie duffieldbut there is still a warning to patients. t but there is still a warning to -atients. ., ._ but there is still a warning to -atients. ., ,._ ., but there is still a warning to -atients. ., ., ., , , patients. i would say to anybody, regardless _ patients. i would say to anybody, regardless of _ patients. i would say to anybody, regardless of whether _ patients. i would say to anybody, regardless of whether they - patients. i would say to anybody, regardless of whether they are i patients. i would say to anybody, regardless of whether they are a | regardless of whether they are a patient, to be vigilant about any suspicious e—mails or texts or calls that you may receive. the nhs never asks for example for financial information by text or by e—mail. the attack damaged it systems affecting blood supplies and tests at several london hospitals and gp practices. more than 3,000 procedures, operations and appointments have been cancelled. one of those affected was 14—year—old dylan, he has a

>> well, rosie duffield, of course , who's been very course, who's been very outspoken for women's rightsership . she told the labour leadership. she told our political editor, christopher hope , on his podcast christopher hope, on his podcast that she believes that labour has a woman problem. of course, they've never had a female leader , but sir keir starmer leader, but sir keir starmer will say, well, look, i've got rachel reeves , a woman as shadow rachel reeves, a woman as shadow chancellor, i've got angela rayner as deputy leader. so no, of course there is no woman problem. but, faiza shaheen, the other day was incredibly upset that she couldn't stand against sir iain duncan smith in chingford . and she basically chingford. and she basically said that labour did have a problem with women. and specifically she had said with black and brown people, she just had a baby about six weeks ago by caesarean. she was already out campaigning. she is contemplating taking legal action against the labour party . action against the labour party. >> we wait and see with bated breath on that one. ka

and of course, labour candidate rosie duffield has said she won't be going to election hustings givenneed to do more, susie, to protect our politicians ? protect our politicians? >> lie—ins yeah, i think we do. i mean, look, i think one of the things that makes this country great is that we have, you know, we respect each other. no, i don't agree with nigel farage, but i respect you know, there's got to be that level of respect. we don't we do not behave in this way. what is going on at the moment with rosie is another level. i mean , i am disgusted level. i mean, i am disgusted with what is going on with rosie at the moment. and, you know, i think i mean, look, there are there are bigger arguments here about regulation of social media. the, you know, and i mean, i don't have the expertise to say what needs to be done on that. but ultimately, as i say, one of the things that you know, i love about this country is actually this kind of freedom to speak about things we may not agree. we may disagree, but even if we disagree, i'm going to let you speak . you know, and you you speak. you

a current labour candidate, rosie duffield, is now too fearful for her safety to appear at election hustingsical, which in my bookis is gender critical, which in my book is gender factual. so given the tyranny around this movement, they are not the nice people . and last but not least, people. and last but not least, they will not win . the truth is, they will not win. the truth is, like water on a cracked roof, it will make its way through eventually . if i'm honest with eventually. if i'm honest with you, the daleks make more sense than this doctor who star who wants to exterminate anyone who doesn't agree with him. he should spend more time living in the real world and less time locked away in his tardis , locked away in his tardis, travelling backwards in time when it was okay to tell women to shut up . your reaction to shut up. your reaction gbnews.com/yoursay. let's hear the views of my top pundits this evening. journalist and communications advisor linda jubilee, former tory mp and farmer neil parish, and political consultant and commentator emma burnell linda jubilee. i want to know

labour leader and specifically referencing, what he said a couple of years ago when labour mp rosie duffieldd that only women can have a cervix at that time, he said no, that's wrong. that shouldn't be said. but then just very recently, when former labour leader tony blair says us men have a penis, women have a vagina, he's. men have a penis, women have a vagina, he's . well, i agree with vagina, he's. well, i agree with tony and i would think lots of women questioning why when a very powerful man says something, sir keir starmer finds it to easy agree with him. but when a less powerful woman says effective , the same thing, says effective, the same thing, thatis says effective, the same thing, that is that is not acceptable at all. so i think still some difficult vie for sir keir starmer on this issue. and not just sir keir starmer, but there's been quite a number of members of the labour party have really tied themselves in knots over the last few years of the issue. what is a woman ? issue. what is a woman? >> okay, catherine, thanks very much for that. appreciate it. we're joined now by

keir starmer stood by while rosie duffield was hounded.and his supporters will do the same with the country. do not let the bigots and bullies win . let the bigots and bullies win. and that's an interesting point, isn't it? because this is now yet another issue around women's rights that has divided the labour party. dawn butler waded in today. remember her, and backed tennant, saying not all black women think the same. i agree with david tennant . that's agree with david tennant. that's it. that's the tweet . 54 year it. that's the tweet. 54 year old dawn butler there, by the way, tweeting like a 16 year old. but there we go. an odd response from miss butler, by the way, who has spoken out about the poor treatment of black female politicians in the past. last year, she complains that the disrespect for black women in the commons was, quote, shocking . so does that same shocking. so does that same solidarity not stretch to miss badenoch in this instance? well, i guess not. and her comments come on. the same day, shadow health secretary wes

three three years ago, you criticised your mp, i rosie duffield, for saying only women have a cervix.line and very divided and very hard line and we lost sight of people in that, so much so that that drags you to a place where we end up as we did end up, with the prime minister of the united kingdom making a trans— joke in parliament when the mother of the murdered trans teenager was watching on. that is a shocking place to get through. i's you want to come back in? , ., , ., through. i's you want to come back in? , ., ., through. i's you want to come back in? , ., , ., ., ., in? the question is also alluding to tolerance and _ in? the question is also alluding to tolerance and having _ in? the question is also alluding to tolerance and having tolerance - in? the question is also alluding to tolerance and having tolerance of. tolerance and having tolerance of different — tolerance and having tolerance of different views _ tolerance and having tolerance of different views and _ tolerance and having tolerance of different views and i _ tolerance and having tolerance of different views a

given a lot of weasely answers to questions like the question that was raised last night about rosie duffieldgender. he's trying it's very, very clear, that he is trying to get elected. and it's very and that's the reason why he's saying the things that he's saying. but it's also , i he's saying. but it's also, i think, very important to note that this campaign is different from previous campaigns in that it's almost being run in a way thatis it's almost being run in a way that is , is semi—presidential, that is, is semi—presidential, and we don't know how long keir starmer is going to be able to keep the lid on the left of the party. he says he's happy to be their bogeyman. he's happy to be hated by the far left in his party. but we don't know how long he's going to last and what labour party we might end up with by the end of their first term, or possibly second term. and if the conservative party and, and their period in power is anything to go by that teaches us that, you could end up with innumerable leaders, we could end up with wes streeting, we could end up with angela raynen we could

his original answers on this subject have provoked some concern, not least from a labour mp, rosie duffieldcourse, jk rowling , the week. of course, jk rowling, the famous author, wrote for the times, saying that she was really concerned about keir starmer's stance on this . and starmer's stance on this. and there's been a new battle picked between kemi badenoch and david tennant. i think that goes to show the breadth of concern about the debate. but i suppose david tennant hasn't helped himself by telling kemi badenoch to shut up and saying that he wished she wasn't around anymore. i think all politicians have basically said that this debate has become sometimes to confrontational, to toxic and heated and so, you know, they're very happy to talk about it. but they would rather do so from a position of mutual respect. and it doesn't seem as though david tennant was showing that to kemi badenoch know, it's interesting to hear the words from keir starmer in this election campaign. >> as you say, there does seem to have been an evolution, a shift in the rhetoric, but not just the rhetoric on p