you wrote a column about this when you talked about ross perot. who fits that profile, even if that's not the person, fits that kind of profile. and do you believe that person will represent the majority so that the president of the united states either has to recognize it's coming at him or become it. >> well, i think he has to become it. because, frankly, a lot of what exists in the tea party movement ngor the opposition is scary to me. >> rose: what's scary to you? >> well, there's a lot of... it's based on... a lot of it is based on sort of a class consciousness. you know, i think elitism and populism are opposite sides of the same things. crude class prejudices. and so this is a prejudice against anybody who seems experienced. >> rose: right. >> and i think that's dangerous for the country, as the founders did. and so it has to be... it's going to be formed. and it could be formed by relatively sophisticated people. there's a guy there florida, marco rubio who's running for the senate. >> rose: who's way ahead. >> he's way ahead. and somebody

and i think actually a better parallel is 1991-'02, ross perot.k how close, that election was very close. clinton in the end had to move into the center, reach out to republicans in order to get business done. and he suffered that big, big defeat in '94. >> what does the tea party movement tell us? >> i was just going to see that even though it seems extremely likely the democratic party will suffer severely, we don't know quite how much we would expect them to in better circumstances, in the midterm elections, it's much less clear of whether this is a one-term presidency for obama. it can't possibly have escaped his attention that if there is a kind of nervous division inside the democrats about how much he is a government or how frightened to be and run away from it, what is evan bayh doing, for god's sake? contemptible cowardess i think there. where was i? yes, there is, i herm ris dad. he wouldn't have done that. balls of steel. there is a fury developing in the republican party which we'll see unfold month after month, year after year. be car

host: the role of ross perot.an independent candidate. but you look at massachusetts governor race, state treasurer, cahill, he could divide the republican vote and give the election to democrat patrick. which is somewhat interesting given that democrats right now are those that perceived to have problems with independents. the problem democrats are facing right now is a lot of these independent voters, while the man of the happy with the republican party they are willing to take up that anger, and right now they may be willing to take their anger out on democrats. host: birmingham, alabama, gwenn on the independent line. guest: this young man sort of answered the question i was going to ask about, independent s were really leaning toward the republican, leaving the democrats because of their disillusioned with democrats at the present time. you sort of answer that for me. but another point i wanted to make also jiging the independents, be careful how you are moving away from the democrats because the republicans,

. >> we have seen this before, maybe not of this magnitude, but remember ross perot came around and he was talking about spending and the deficit as well. when you are on the outcome is easy to criticize the people who are on the the ins, especially when things are going badly. this is what is happening to the democrats now. the tea party people are able to muscle the kind of dissatisfaction that is out there now to their side. but the question now for the democrats is -- this is not an insoluble problem. >> politico published the results of a daily kos poll -- 63% of republicans think obama is a socialist, 33% to not think he was born in the united states, 23% think that their state should secede from the union. this is hardly mainstream. >> you will never get those percentages. they are gone. obama will never get them. it is the people in the middle. the first step is coming clean with people about what is involved. obama at his best can be somebody who levels with you. >> ok, walter mondale tried that. he said, i am not much to raise taxes -- i'm telling you, i am going to do that.

you start to see it in ross perot's campaign.e is fiscally conservative and libertarian socially, but what was happening, anger at the deficit, and both parties had given up fiscal responsibility, and the sail thing that motivating independents and some tea partyiers today. you have seen an reinsertion of the base politics that have angered people. so folks are angry and given up on politics as usual, but where this story breaks is yet to be written. >> what you saw in the white house right now and what you saw in the election of barack obama is that he is trying to become that candidate again. a lot of independent voters flocked to barack obama because they thought that he was trepttation of that sort of independent bipartisan politician, and now what you are seeing with the president as he goes and talks about civility and goes to the house republican conference and takes them on, he is trying to reclaim that mantle of ross perot, if you will to a certain degree and say, i'm fiscally responsible and bipartisan and try to get th

host: the role of ross perot.est: we have not seen a ross perot figure emerge into many different cycles -- to many races where independent voters can't throw their boats off to an independent candidate. but you look at massachusetts governor race, state treasurer, cahill, he could divide the republican vote and give the election to democrat patrick. which is somewhat interesting given that democrats right now are those that perceived to have problems with independents. the problem democrats are facing right now is a lot of these independent voters, while the man of the happy with the republican party they are willing to take up that anger, and right now they may be willing to take their anger out on democrats. host: birmingham, alabama, gwenn on the independent line. guest: this young man sort of answered the question i was going to ask about, independent s were really leaning toward the republican, leaving the democrats because of their disillusioned with democrats at the present time. you sort of answer that fo

we have had several independent presidential candidacies, in the 1980's john anderson, ross perot wentand out of the presidential race, but typically if you go back -- this is not been a country with a significant number of independents historically. if you go back to the 1940's in terms of party identification, you can see that betweenb. 50%d 20% identified as independent. i around 40% identified themselves as democrats, and around 35% as republicans. you can see but a peak are around the time of president kennedy's election in the early 1960's, the democrats went up to 50% of the country identifying themselves as democrats. the republicans went straight down as you can see, what it -- with the surge back coming back around 1980, or ronald reagan bringing back the republican party. but if you look at that middle line, that is the independent line. it has shown a steady rise in the country so that at this moment, with 36% in this poll, i have seen it as high as 40%, the biggest party in america is the middle party. and if you go back, this is the 70-year history here. this is a first

host: the role of ross perot.ts right now are those that perceived to have problems with independents. the problem democrats are facing right now is a lot of these independent voters, while the man of the happy with the republican party they are willing to take up that anger, and right now they may be willing to take their anger out on democrats. host: birmingham, alabama, gwenn on the independent line. guest: this young man sort of answered the question i was going to ask about, independent s were really leaning toward the republican, leaving the democrats because of their disillusioned with democrats at the present time. you sort of answer that for me. but another point i wanted to make also jiging the independents, be careful how you are moving away from the democrats because the republicans, they were in office for eight years and a lot of things didn't get done and also what is going to happen if they do have the majority in the senate and house, will they work with the president? if they do have control of t

any time you get a disagreement -- ross perot -- >> this is what it reminds us of. >> very similar to or the progressive movement at the beginning of the turn of the century. lot of passion, commitment, left-liberal thinking but not really well formed in terms of instru structure. it has a lot of work ahead of it. but i think it says something about where we are, politically in this country. people are getting tired of democrats and republicans and willing to look at independent movements and candidates. >> let me ask you about sarah palin, more about her role within the party, mark. you look at where she's going. after she keynotes the nashville gathering on saturday night, she's going to campaign for rick perry in texas and will pop up in nevada, going up against harry reid. she's going to be in, understandably, campaigning for john mccain out in arizona. but we're going to see her all over this country. is she the most prominent republican right now and also the standard bearer for the tea party, angry voter that has been described by david bonior? >> if you want to raise money or

even before ross perot appears on the scene the party is broken and will not follow him into the next election. she didn't really have a party when he ran in 1992. in a sense he was like john tyler. and part of a days inn has a lot to do with the changes in our political environment in that period and a lot to do with him. he was not ideological by nature, that was an ideological time. he was a reaganite by convenience. he believed in service and as of the presidency as the apex of public service in america. did not see it as a crusade. he saw it as a calling and that was the era when people were looking for crusaders. >> maybe it doesn't look so good. when we talk about foreign policy i think but i think we ought to go for questions for the audience and there's a microphone right there and i ask you if any of you have questions for the distinguished panel please, come to the microphone. don't be shy. very good. please, come to the microphone because we really need to use it. and keep your questions brief to the plate and make them questions like on had jeopardy. [laughter] >> can eve

ross perot brought it to the public's attention. a guy can make a living.scommoip we'll leave it there. the "wall street journal" reporting, via the associated press, alexander haig is in critical condition at johns hopkins hospital in baltimore. the hospital spokesperson said friday that the 85-year-old was admitted january 28 and remains in critical condition. mr. stephenson says he cannot say why mr. haig is hospitalized. four-star general served as a top aid veers he to three presidents and had presidential combation of his own. president richard nixon appointed him white house chief of staff in 1973. st. clare shores, michigan, vir jail our democrats line. we're asking folks if your member of congress deserves re-election. caller: yes, i do. host: who is your member, by the way? caller: my member of congress is senator levin, and my senator is carl levin. host: ok. caller: and they don't always vote the way -- you know, in my best interests, but most of the time they do. i can't expect to get everything i want. but take, for example, the bankruptcy bil

ross perot warned us about in 1992.nafta, the problems to the south, and economic issues, not rainfall, to flood the country with cheaper workers. you look today, the people most hurt by it are black citizens and legal hispanics. so i haven't heard a lot from him. how does he view the situation, the economic issues? i feel many people try to take these issues and then try, because they didn't refute them with facts, they brand them with words that are rainfall, restrictionist, or xenophobe when every other country has a right to protect the citizens in their countries. and i'm not talking about legal immigration, which i do think there is probably too much of it. i think 140,000 workers brought into this country each month at a time when we were in a recession, that's too many. i appreciate what he's doing. i do wish you would clarify his position on that. host: clarify your position for pat in jacksonville. guest: that's a lot to talk about. i have lived in six different countries. i will tell you, i opened the soviet

. >> does this remind you of the ross perot phenomenon? >> i was not impressed when they said they had 600 people at a national convention. that's not very many in a nation of 303 million. what government spend willing they cut? it is the republicans. i'm republican. but the republicans are the ones that destroyed the fiscal integrity of the government. let's hear something about that. it was the bush tax cuts, not mr. obama's destroying the fiscal integrity of the government. let's hear a few words about that. you can't cut government spending magically and make the problem disappear. it is too big. they have to raise taxes and gigantic way over the next several years and tea partiers can't do a thing about them. i love them. god bless them. >> stand by for a moment. we are also standing by for president obama. getting ready to speak at a democratic fund-raiser here in washington. he will make sxrashgs then take questions. letting the cameras stay inside the room for q&a. when the president gets going over there, we will watch and listen.

ross perot said it better to make computer chips and potato chips. that's true if you're good at computer chips. if you're not you're going to get even poorer doing something are not good at. >> host: adams this important new compared to john maynard keynes, milton friedman. >> guest: well, they stand at the shoulders without trying it. they are hayek and friedman more than keynes, but i'm sure came with himself is in the same tradition. >> guest: i mean, one difference between smith and the others is that none of the others that you mentioned fall themselves as a moral philosopher as well as an economist. this sometimes a very interesting things to say about morality and about moral philosophy in certain ways. but smith's views i think it's a great the study of human nature from a philosophical point of view with a study of human nature in a more empirical way, more than the others do. let me just say a word about that if i may. which also pertains to this question of how you read the wealth of nations and "the theory of moral sentiments" together.

agreements, starting with nafta, of course, our remembered when ofross perot -- we remember when ross perotd about the big sucking sound. isn't it interesting that china now has become our banker? it does not take a genius or an economics professor to figure out that when goldman sachs, who was behind nafta, along with mr. robert rubin, bill clinton's first secretary of the treasury , they basically went against the american people's will because that was the percentage of the american people that opposed nafta. the other thing i want to say is that when china passed their stimulus, they had a provision that 100% of that money had to be spent in china. if we have the same provision in our -- we had the same provision in our stimulus, but the chamber of commerce lobbied against that and it was taken out. i think the chamber of commerce should take the "u.s" out of their name. i have taken some economics, but i am not an economics professor. host: let's get some more information from don peck, who wrote the article. guest: i am notçó an economics professor either, although i did look at these

do what ross perot -- five-year waiting period when you leave office to become a lobbyist.ter question. there was a piece in "the washington post" looking at the filibuster and out it has been used. senate majority leader harry reid when he was in the minority did a filibuster for eight consecutive straight hours. guest: filibuster is an interesting thing. both parties love to hate it when they are in charge. and then when they are in the minority they love to defend it. republicans have been very good with changing to a certain degree -- since they lost power in 2006. at that point the basically said on everything we will require a 60-vote majority. their argument is it has always been that way and technically it has been but not on the regular basis and has been since then. so it is a cause i-filibuster -- quasi-filibuster. but it is not like you see in the movies where you have jimmie stored on the floor of the senate for days on end talking. but they have done i think we -- a remarkable job stymieing harry reid on bills and nomination using legislative processes that al

agreements, starting with nafta, of course, our remembered when ofross perot -- we remember when ross perotsound. isn't it interesting that china now has become our banker? it does not take a genius or an economics professor to figure out that when goldman sachs, who was behind nafta, along with mr. robert rubin, bill clinton's first secretary of the treasury , they basically went against the american people's will because that was the percentage of the american people that opposed nafta. the other thing i want to say is that when china passed their stimulus, they had a provision that 100% of that money had to be spent in china. if we have the same provision in our -- we had the same provision in our stimulus, but the chamber of commerce lobbied against that and it was taken out. i think the chamber of commerce should take the "u.s" out of their name. i have taken some economics, but i am not an economics professor. host: let's get some more information from don peck, who wrote the article. guest: i am notçó an economics professor either, although i did look at these issues for mariko and b

time and very much alive today were people think we have to choose and pick the right activities ross perot said it's better to make computer chips than potato chips that is true if you are good at computer chips. if you're not you were going to get bored doing something or not good at. >> host: when you compare him to people like john maynard canes, milton friedman? >> guest: the stand out as shoulders of the giant. they are all by adam smith. hi yet and friedman more than came spline sure that he would see himself as in the same tradition to get >> host: go ahead, professor. >> guest: one week to the good difference is one never saw themselves as a moral philosopher as well as an economist. they sometimes interesting things to say about morality and philosophy in certain ways. but smith's views i think integrate the study of human nature from a philosophical point of view of the study of human nature in a more empirical way more than the others do. let me just say a word about that if i might which also pertains to the question how you read the wealth of nations and the fury of moral sent

ross perot said it better to make computer chips and potato chips. that's true if you're good at computer chips. if you're not you're going to get even poorer doing something are not good at. >> host: adams this important new compared to john maynard keynes, milton friedman. >> guest: well, they stand at the shoulders without trying it. they are hayek and friedman more than keynes, but i'm sure came with himself is in the same tradition. >> guest: i mean, one difference between smith and the others is that none of the others that you mentioned fall themselves as a moral philosopher as well as an economist. this sometimes a very interesting things to say about morality and about moral philosophy in certain ways. but smith's views i think it's a great the study of human nature from a philosophical point of view with a study of human nature in a more empirical way, more than the others do. let me just say a word about that if i may. which also pertains to this question of how you read the wealth of nations and "the theory of moral sentiments" together.

the point i would like to make is that in the tea party, lot of people are ross perot people who seeuences that he warned us about in 1992. nafta, illegal immigration. economic issues, not racism. as you look today, the people most hurt by it our black citizens, and hispanics. so i have not heard a lot from him. how does he viewed the economic issue? i feel like people try to take these economic issues, and because they cannot repeat them with facts, the brent them with words like racism. every country has a right to protect the citizens in their country. i think that 140,000 workers brought into this country every month in a time of depression, that is too many. i appreciate what he is doing. he gives people hope. thank you so much. guest: that is a lot to talk about. i spent much of my life overseas. i worked in 50 countries, lived in six countries. i watched the berlin wall come down. i opened up operations in india and china. we have to be concerned. the responsibility is to use tax dollars to pay. but let me give people perspective. labor is fungible. money is fungible. it goes

lived through -- i worked for bill clinton when he ran for president in 9192, i saw the impact that ross perot had, there may be a moment if they are good for anything, they can make an argument on deficits they can force politicians that operate out of fear to do something that will have a longer lasting impact. but i'll close with this. that i think ultimately our problems are bigger. in the time that i spent traveling the country until last year, until 2008, what i detected was something different, much more fundamental. the american people are very aware of something that they can't quite find a way to put into words. but the greatness of america is somewhere like sand in someone's hand at the beach. they feel like it's slipping through their functioners. they -- through their fingers. they are looking for someone, some political force, that will deal honestly with with grabbing the sand and putting it all back today. they feel it not just for themselves, but for their children. he's having a tough like right now, but john edwards talked about this, with two americas, bob graham who is a m