ç he was running after ross perot and george bush.his is a different dynamic and the gap between clinton and dole is really stunning at this point, but moving from 30 to 50 is possible. >> yeah, it's wicked weird for me to watch that too. it was a different world back then, and many of the familiar figures today were in different places then. pat buchanan was then the ron paul of the republican party, running hopeless campaigns for president that won him a lot more votes than ron paul could ever dream of. >> tim, did we factor buchanan into this at all? if republicans abandon dole, do they revive the buchanan candidacy? perhaps tim is taking a coffee break. that's okay. do you think buchanan can go to the convention now and say i'm still here? >> buchanan is doing that. he's in the paper today says ross perot can take my voters. what he means by that is republican party better pay attention to me or my voters are going to go to ross perot. that's a strong argument at this point, and the republican party has to desperately figure out w

in 1992 that was ross perot. now, the only one that fits that is the mayor of new york, michael bloomberg. >> because he's short? >> no. he's got billions and he's got the organizational gift. these are guys who know how to build empires and business and think, some of them, they can build a temporary empire, which is what a presidential campaign is. bloomberg says he's not doing it. >> an gus king, a great name in u.s. politics was on another show this morning, ""the daily rundown"." he brought up a candidate. listen to who he floats as a potential candidate for a third party ticket. listen. >> i think it would be somebody, a guy names chuck hagel, a republican senator from nebraska -- >> who endorsed obama, essentially. >> he's a terrific guy. i could see a guy like that and a democrat coming together to form a team that could change american politics. >> chris, this goes to the idea that because the business community isn't well thought of these days, you are not going to get a businessman. warren buffett is p

is the opportunity for some independent candidate to get many the race like ross perot did in the '90s. waiting for perot? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. a compass and it always points true north. toward mountains of sand. toward new sights and sensations. toward the true bounty of nature so let's set our compass for traverse city and find ourselves. in the magic, and the moments of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. oh, we call it the bundler. let's say you need home and auto insurance. you give us your information once, online... [ whirring and beeping ] [ ding! ] and we give you a discount on both. sort of like two in one. how did you guys think of that? it just came to us. what? bundling and saving made easy. now, that's progressive. call or click today. >>> welcome back to "hardball." it's no secret voters are unhappy with washington, with the president, with congress wrk the economy. could this anger fuel an actual third party on independent candidacy come 2012. we saw it with ross perot, could it happen again? welcome our guests. good guys to have on thi

ross perot was popular in texas because frankly he was a great character. even though he was quite pint sized and had a funny voice, he carried himself as a tall, tough texan. another big part of his popularity was his business savvy that made him a billionaire for founding and selling computer services that employed thousands of people, but ross perot was popular in part because he had a habit of making grand gestures of topics close to people's heart. for example, in 1989, a man tried to murder a tree, the last of austin, texas' oak tree with a massive dose of herbicide, ross perot responded by handing over a blank check to pay for the cost of nursing the tree back to health. the costs ran into six figures. that tree these days i have to say is not in great shape, but it is still alive and produced its first acorns eight years after it almost got tree murdered and survived thanks in part of ross perot and his act of generosity. now america is dealing with another sentimental case ofr f murder. auburn university in alabama where somebody poisoned two oak t

is the opportunity for some independent candidate to get in the race like ross perot did back in the 90s? waiting for perot? st night elix. its gentle glycolic formula resurfaces at night for the smooth skin of a light chemical peel. sleep tight. regenerist, from olay. and replace your old mayo [ female announcer ] it's time to raise the bar with the full flavor of kraft mayo with olive oil. ♪ made with half the fat and calories of hellmann's real mayo... ...kraft mayo with olive oil is the new standard in mayo. >> secretary geithner said he is staying on. bloomberg was the first to report that geithner was considering leavingpies hiss post after the president leaves congress with a debt ceiling. last night, geithner said he is staying put. let's be honest. it would be tough for him to leave before the 2012 election, here is why. the obama administration would want to avoid a litigation, a treasury secretary, relitigated their entire economic policies just as the reelection campaign is getting under way. we will be right back. with bengay pain relief plus massage you can do this... ge

it is the opportunity for some independent candidate to get in the race, like ross perot did back in the '90s? waiting for perot? >>> you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. new newtons fruit thins. real cranberries and delicious cranberry citrus oat... ♪ or real blueberries... ♪ ...and luscious blueberry brown sugar. the goodness of whole grains... and a thin crispy crunch. new newtons fruit thins, one unique cookie. >>> treasury secretary tim geithner is staying on for the foreseeable future. he was considering leaving post after the president reach as deal with congress on the debt creeling. last night, geithner said he's staying put. let's be honest. it would be tough for him to leave before the 2012 election. here's why. the obama administration would want to the avoid a confirmation hearing that simply relitigated for a new treasury secretary, relitigated their entire economic policy just as the re-election campaign is getting under way. under way. >>> we'll be right back. i don't care if my tampons come in a little black box. i just want them to work. tampax pearl protects better

independents we think of ross perot and a person who's turned off politics to some extent. >> i think there's a cross. the specific things they can do across the specific groups but to me the core difference between 2008 and 2012 is going to be politics of hope we saw in 2008 versus politics of fear in 2012. they won't call it that but so much of this campaign in terms of driving turnout, amongst all of these group lbs about making the republican alternative totally aun acceptable and they will have a billion dollars. you will see a negative, onslaught of negative advertising. we have never seen -- chris: you just split the story. if the story is hope for obama, how does he build up that -- >> it's fear this time. 2012 it's fear of the alternative. and it's $500 million of negative ads run against mitt romney or jon huntsman or michele bachmann. chris: and trashing his opponent? >> the public may not want to see it but they will get it. in the past even though they say they don't want to see it, it worked in the past. >> the very same democratic campaign running against republican ext

it's not accident that the one guy that pulled it off in the last 25 years was a billionaire ross perot king, i know you were aware of a few different entities that are trying essentially to get on the ballot and sort of almost provide -- saying, here you go and hoping that if you build it, they will come. are you confident these groups can make this happen? >> i was involved in such a group four years ago called unity '08. we foundered on the rock of the valid access. there's a new group, americans elect that seems to be pretty good at raising money. i haven't been directly involved with them but been in touch with them and they are making progress in collecting signatures but it remains to be seen whether they can pull it off. the other thing to say about independents is that they are in fact independent. >> right. >> the idea that they represent a middle road necessarily, that isn't necessarily the case. some of them are independent because they think the republican party is too far to the left or vice versea, the idea that if you can get a moderate middle of the road independent can

ross perot at one point had 40% of the polls, and he was nuts. he thought little black helicopters were chasing him. imagine that michael bloomberg runs. he does not need a dime from anyone. he attaches a on to his plan a carbon tax to raise money for government research. he will get more than ross perot's 18.9% of the vote, and i think it would really shake up the system. this system needs shaking up. we are trapped in a corrupt duopoly and basically -- one thing about the internet and the hyper connected world. it has gladdened every hierarchy -- flattened every hierarchy in the world from the new york times to the banking industry. it has gladdened every hierarchy -- black and every hierarchy -- flattened every hierarchy in the world except the two-party system, and that will not remain. that is a prediction that i will make. i think this is going to be radical election unless barack obama becomes the third party candidate. >> that texas back to lincoln -- that takes us back to lincoln. you had a movement that eventually changes things. let me

my father was dying and valid doing the job for the old ross perot company. there were women that want to pray for my father and i was very touched by this. atheists will say that they don't need your prayers and would have been dismissive about it. these were kind women and the couple met and that felt attached to me and concerned for me and didn't even know how my father. this was very moving and i thing -- who knows what the power of prayer is. the of them are convincing to my skeptical mind, but they say it can move mountains. they can heal people. perhaps this may be narrow scientific, the people can throw away crutches and of wheelchair's, high-end -- and there is that. tavis: i think there is a courage to save you don't know about any particular thing. how unpopular it is, there is a certain amount of courage. what would have to happen for you to leave? >> has is going to sound a cerebral and intellectual, but i would have to have something empirical. he makes a division between the outer empirical at the anna and her goal. it would be great if somethi

america anymore and the last high profile american politician to tell the truth about this was ross perot and his blunt honesty on the topic got him twenty percent of the vote in one nine hundred ninety two. first i have to do is get all these folks they've got these wrong way trade agreements that we've negotiated over the years and say fellas we'll fight the same deal we gave you. and they'll gridlock right if we have got to stop sending jobs overseas there will be a sucking sound going south he was right and just like we outsource u.s. jobs in manufacturing plants overseas now we've even outsourced the american way itself once we dropped it nations like china india brazil south korea picked it up and guess which economies are booming in a few years china will surpass the united states as the top economy in the world and if you in decades india will surpass us to the bric nations that's brazil russia india and china all nations that now employ the american way currently account for one fifth of the world's economy and represent forty five percent of all the economic growth on the planet

remember this warning from presidential candidate ross perot in one thousand nine hundred two about what free trade would lead to. and you don't care about anything but make it not me there will be a challenge sucking sound going south so here that giant sucking sound or is it being drowned out by the noise the debt ceiling debate general electric announced yesterday that they're moving their x. ray of business headquarters out of the us and into china. three years ago the instant china institute a national single payer health care system covering every person in the country and thus their health care market is growing rapidly and g.e. wants to get in on that game i guess here in the united states where basic health care is becoming less and less available to people actually businesses and so profitable anymore the ironic thing is this g.e. c.e.o. jeffrey immelt is moonlighting as the head of president obama's job creation council he's the guy in charge of trying to figure out how to create more jobs in the united states while his day job is as a c.e.o. who's boxing up his company and sh

ross perot. and they were also taking a fair amount of heat for the -- for mr. bush's appointment to the supreme court of clarence thomas. so she had a certain amount of concern. but then came the clinton and things started out kind of on a strange footing. a magazine concocted what became known as the great cookie controversy. some of you i can see nodding your heads. you remembered this. the question was, who baked the better chocolate chip cookies? was it barbara bush or was it hillary clinton? and hillary clinton sort of dismissed this and said, i'm too busy to bake cookies, you know, let's forget about this. and mr. bush said she thought the whole thing was forgotten. and then a few months later, the same magazine ran a story saying that in a taste test, people liked hillary clinton's cookies better. and barbara bush, well, that's really interesting because that's not my recipe. well, i mention it because even though it seems like a silly thing, perhaps, it garnered all of a sudden some very serious comment from reporters and columnists. and this also gave

ross perot ran as an independent, taking many fiscal conservatives. that was before people figured out ross patrol -- ross perot's trace table was not in full upright position. ronald reagan reminded another audience he addressed in the spring of 1993, before the alzheimer's had taken hold. he give one final reunion four former aides and staffers and said, "here we go again. we elected a president who violated basic principles and had a liberal masquerading as a moderate, bill clinton." people who live by the rules should live better than those who do not live by the rules. he campaigned as a moderate but will govern as a liberal. what will happen? he will fail. sure enough, within two years, bill clinton had brought us the botched attempt to have hillary takeover the natural -- national health-care system, the largest tax increase in american history, a btu tax similar to cap and trade, and social experimentation. all kinds of problems. the 1994 republican revolution changed all that. bill clinton, of course, was not jimmy carter. he knew he was in tr

bill clinton he had ross perot. so when bill clinton of at 46%.e won the presidency with 43% and won re-election running against bob dole. now the iraq war of getting going there that would be where george w. bush's numbers came down but he went on to win re-election by the time he got to re-election it was a closer dynamic. >> long way to go. thanks, john very much. she's the force behind the embattled media giant rupert murdoch. a closer look at the young wife leepg to her husband's defense. >>> plus from the streets to the stage you'll meet the korea's got talent star who is wowing the world. >>> you might remember susan boyle the woman whose voice captured the world's attention during her performance on the television show britain's got talent. now korea's got talent has discovered a new voice with an amazing story behind it. here is cnn paula hancock in seoul. >> reporter: trying to calm those last minute nerves, he seems just like thousands of other hopefuls on korea's got talent. but he's not. >> reporter: for the next ten years he lived on

and somebody sued ross perot when he didn't run for president, but it doesn't mean that the case has standard or merit. but when you look to the law enforcement costs, that is something specific to each state. but they have to take a percentage in termings of the cases or the counts for which she was convicted. because she was not convicted of murder. she was not convicted of the whole kit and caboodle shall we say, but 5% if you could say that of what she was charged with when you look at the premeditated murder charge that could have resulted in the death penalty. >> anne bremner, great to see you today. thanks. >> thanks. >>> a 100-year-old british tabloid "news of the world" is shutting down. all of this out of a growing scandal of hacking potential victims and why james murdoch said it had to be done. sglo >> as a descendent of iowa, i'm a resident of waterloo. >>> and there is a congressman under fire for what he calls bachmann's sex appeal. >>> and jay barbary joins us live ahead of nasa's last shuttle launch. [ male announcer ] this is larry... whose long day starts with arth

ross perot ran as an independent, taking many fiscal conservatives. ot in full upright position. ronald reagan reminded another audience he addressed in the spring of 1993, before the alzheimer's had taken hold. he give one final reunion four former aides and staffers and said, "here we go again. we elected a president who violated basic principles and had a liberal masquerading as a moderate, bill clinton." people who live by the rules should live better than those who do not live by the rules. he campaigned as a moderate but will govern as a liberal. what will happen? he will fail. sure enough, within two years, bill clinton had brought us the botched attempt to have hillary takeover the natural -- national health-care system, the largest tax increase in american history, a btu tax similar to cap and trade, and social experimentation. all kinds of problems. the 1994 republican revolution changed all that. bill clinton, of course, was not jimmy carter. he knew he was in trouble. he hired an unscrupulous political consultant. of course i repeat myself.

he will get more than ross perot's 18.9% of the vote, and i think it would really shake up the system. this system needs shaking up. we are trapped in a corrupt duopoly and basically -- one thing about the internet and the hyper connected world. it has gladdened every hierarchy in the world from the new york times to the banking industry. it has gladdened every hierarchy in the world except the two- party system, and that will not remain. that is a prediction that i will make. i think this is going to be radical election unless barack obama becomes the third party candidate. >> that texas back to lincoln -- that takes us back to lincoln. you had a movement that eventually changes things. let me open it up. >> i think we only have one microphone. right here, and then who is over here looking for mike? my question is, if it is dead man walking in the middle east, there is a country called saudi arabia which you have written a lot about. i realize -- what this country does not realize is what happens if it falls. >> the king is somewhere -- the crown prince is extremely ill. the acting c

i think that, what was his name, ross perot? he made a difference in 2000 or 92. he made a difference. i think that african-american people have the right to raise questions, issues, platforms but i also think that at the end of the day, if you tell me that my choice is any democrats or sarah palin -- [laughter] i am going to go with any democrats. i mean, that would be me. that might not be you. that would be me. i'm not sure that i can see russia from alaska. [laughter] and yet, though, there are many are regressive's. there are many people of color who are in this quandary. what is a quandary? >> of quandary is -- the quandary is how to get action for your. >> the same thing that you are urging. >> we cannot, we cannot assume again -- let me be really clear. those who are in presidential politics who understand the limitations that any president has. he was talking about more than just a president though. i think the whole party. >> so make it happen. make it happen. here in new york i think there is a working party's family which i think is really exciting and

she was trying to illustrate, kind of like ross perot used to do, how spending is out of control herehe voted against the cut, cap and balance amendment saying it didn't go far enough. she voted against it yesterday, brooke. >> how is she doing, paul? when you look at the recent polling? >> you know, she is doing very well. she's definitely been on the rise. in fact, nbc wall street journal, a national poll came out yesterday, second straight national gop horse race poll where she's in second place. you can see right there at 16%. look at that, the governor of texas, rick perry, he's not in the race, but he's climbing in the polls. stay tuned. this race is getting more exciting by the day. >> thank you so much. >> find out why american airlines are buying hundreds of new planes. idling ] [ male announcer ] talking a big game about your engine is one thing. having the proven history that can back it up is a whole nother story. unsurpassed torque... best in class towing... legendary cummins engines. which engine do you want powering your truck? guts. glory. ram. which engine do you want

. >> if there's a third party that emerges along the lines of ross perot, you remember what happenedat in effect guarantee barack obama's re-election? >> no, i don't think anything at this point guarantees barack obama's election. in this current process, the american people definitely want this over. but the devil is in the is in the details, and if they find out it's been done the wrong way then everyone who participated in that process is going to pay a price at polls. in my view i think a third party is extraordinarily difficult to organize in this country. we've been a two-party system for a very long time. this is a substantial tea party movement in this country, but i don't see that actually forming into a third party. >> it may not be, james, as difficult as it used to be in this age of social network and the internet. >> no, it could happen. by the way, the public does want tax increases, overwhelmingly they want a increase of tax increases and spending cuts, overwhelmingly, not close. like 65%. >> if people are clamoring to have a higher tax bill, i haven't seen it. >> i wa

caller: ross perot said that there was not a dime's worth of difference between republicans and democratsi have to agree with that statement. i think that the senators and congressmen, they are not fighting for no tax increase on the rich, they are all rich themselves. host: thank you for calling. one more message from twitter this morning. host: here is senator mitch mcconnell, republican, on "fox news sunday" of all of this. >> look, over 60% of our budget, we do not even vote on. you cannot do anything, serious, about the deficit without impacting the biggest percentage of the budget. so, i commend the president for putting medicare and social security on the table. he is correct in doing that. you cannot have a serious debt correction program without dealing with them in the long term of years. host: published in "the washington times" this morning -- host: cape coral, florida, philip, good morning. caller: social security should not even be on the table. social security is supposed to come from our government and should have no connection with our spending or deficit anything. this i