and here you have ross perot probably more right center than left center. deeply opposed to it for the reasons he said. i think the outsourcing of jobs more than anything else is what perot was focused on in the mid 1990's. >> carolyn barta, you told us about this story before but in 1995 ross perot started to organize the -- what became the reform party. can you tell us a little bit about that effort. and how the reform party took shape. >> well, the people who had worked on the perot campaign in 1992 wanted to remain involved. and for a while, even, were very active as, you know, shadowing their congressmen and sending letters and so forth. so the reform party was organized to try to create a vehicle that would be a stable political influence of third party. and then there was -- in the convention of 1996, perot and dick lamb who had been the governor of colorado indicated an interest in running on the reform party ticket. and perot re-emerged to lead the ticket. so that probably was the high point for the reform party. after that came jesse ventura was el

you knew ross perot as a journalist before many people met hi. you tell us about his roots in texarkana and what shaped the man we knew of a national stage? >> perot was from texarkana. he had an average texas childhood. as a boy he broke horses and traded horses. he was an eagle scout. even in later tonight i think he kept all of the traits of the eagle scout. he would set of objectives and goals and try to pursue those goals. he was very much in the texas tradition of the day. as he grew and went to the naval academy and started his own businesses, he was representing the can-do spirit of texas. his vision was a big, the state was big, there were powerless opportunities. the sky was the limit. he really sort of played into what was the texas mythology with texas politicians who were larger than life, very successful businessman who made a fortune here. they were risk takers, they were not afraid to fail. that was the sort of spirit he had at that i think got him into this thing. >> noting that at the naval academy, he was president of his class

ross perot did it in 1992. ross perot made bill clinton a deficit reducer. ross is a little -- you know. so -- down there at the end, the elevator wasn't going all the way to the top. so it's a -- yet, ross perot, let's remember, won 20% of the vote almost. shows you 40u we're really hungry, i think. i think if president obama -- i say because he's president, i'm going to shuck all of this, axelrod, go home. i'm going to run a radically responsible, radically bold, radically visionary campaign. one thing democrats have told you is that republicans are impossible. they're trying to stop everything. i'm not going get into that whether it's true or not in the congress. there's truth to it. we can debate all of that later. my frustration is that may all be true in congress, but it's never actually gone to the people. actually said, okay, if these guys are blocking me, i'm not going with my base, i'm going to to people, oh cape, with a real plan. i'm going to keep going with them. i'll call it simpson and bowles and whoever, there are republicans who voted for th

at least the barack obama's percentage is higher than bill clinton, but exit polls showed that ross perot was point about evenly to split the vote and have you come up with clinton running a little bit out of obama. this shows up if we look at the area to two thirds in a brief. even if we begin measuring from the beginning of june when obama clinches the nomination come to his league minus four points. for most of the campaign obama found himself unable to top 50% and wasn't until october 7 in the middle of the financial clout 31st of the 50% mark in the rcp average. mccain has successfully drilled the drilling issue during the summer and used that to narrow his deficit with obama after the election david axelrod admitted the one thing they did poorly in the campaign is handling the energy issue in the summer. now, this was one of the major side effects of the financial collapse that it wrote the price of capsule ain't significantly by election day and took away the main issue that john mccain had set himself up to run on in the fall. this was the issue that was the reason he picked thera

in other words, for instance, one debate, a three-person debate with bill clinton and ross perot, when he looked at his watch -- >> host: famous moment. >> guest: famous moment, he said yeah, so i look at my watch. so they're all over me. doesn't have any do with issues. doesn't have to do with whatever. any say in the interview with me, he said well, i said why were you looking at your watch? he said well, i was looking at my watch because this thing was boring me. now, i was looking to see when this was going to be over. see, those kind of things to the audience, you know, it leaves an impression. and it's a language impression that it's a bodily which impression rather than a spoken word in russian. and so from george h.w. bush's point of view he just thinks it's ridiculous to have so much riding on these three, two, 90 minute exchange is. >> host: his son go as you point out in the book gives exactly the opposite. >> guest: absolutely. he thinks it's terrific. he and bill clinton said exactly the same thing in different words, that they feel it makes them feel out not only better c

. >> sean: i never sfuat the argument that ross perot split the votes but this will ensure obama fourng the election.... >> you can't win the roo election. >> we can because ross perot led the race for four months, john anderson led the race in 1980. >> we've got about six alternatives that people are going to decide in south carolina. you don't have to come up with something to split the vote. >> i disagree with that. >> sean: i would say mitt romney is a good candidate. i think newt is a good candidate. i think rick santorum is a strong candidate. i think governor perry is much better governor than he is candidate." love him. he would be an infinitely better president than obama. >> voters disagree. the republicans are down. turnout for democrats are up. because the independents are coming up. >>> absolutely. we have more absentee ballots than ever in history. >> people are focused on this election like never before. this is going to be an historically viewed election. >> he may poison the well. i know you are sincere, i know that, you are going to cause... the grin. >> i talked abo

ross perot was ehe can seven trick and was endearing in his own way. i don't think that. i think ron paul is a little more irritating and exas operating and a little more erratic. >> with your prediction we're in for a surprise tomorrow night, that's where i'm headed tomorrow morning. i'm going to ask you to come back and keep us honest on this election season. goes without saying we'll have it all covered tomorrow from new hampshire beginning at "today" in the morning and then "nbc nightly news" in the evening and right on through primetime and, of course, wall-to-wall political coverage tomorrow on msnbc. up next for us here tonight, do you know percy jackson? chances are your kids do. he's the fictional hero that has captivated young readers to the tunes of tens of millions of books and counting. >>> welcome back. if you have young kids then you may know very well the percy jackson books have caught fire with young readers. the books are a kind of narrative mash-up of classical mythology with current life today. they're popularity is at near harry potter levels in some

no version of ross perot. the ceos don't have the same charisma that ross perot did. it could be a recovering politician. former republican governor that says i will get rid of my party and try it this way. there certainly is an appetite for it in the public. the question, i think you hit the nail on the head. there's just not the candidates. >> interesting prospect, though. interesting issues coming up during the election year that could have an impact, including the u.s. supreme court will rule on the new health care mandate. a very controversial thing. if the court rules against it, how might that change the dynamic? >> suddenly, the president will have his first year's work. his first year's accomplishment, health care. he really used up a lot of political capital. the supreme court would wipe it out. it doesn't wipe out the whole law, but the mandate is the heart of the law. so how the president recovers from that, there are some theorys to the case, some of the president's team believe if it's struck down, it allows us to run against the whole system, rally the

ross perot was not likely to become the nominee, ran as an independent. but he really affected the issues terrain. and that was very, very important. >> or is it just people are so upset with the economy, anybody but president obama right now? >> people are very, very upset with the economy and they're looking at obama and saying you know, it's not getting any better. except, jessica, we also have a poll which shows that there may be a little bit be less pessimism about the economy if you take a look at this, we have a poll which shows that people now rate the committee, this is a different one. okay. >> we'll go past that one and talk about pessimism and the economy. good, 18 percent. do we have that number? there we go. was 15% in november. somewhat poor, 42, was 34%. so people think it's somewhat poor. if you look at the very poor number, a 13-point differential, jessica. >> and that's positive for the president because it shows that some people think that maybe he's making a little bit of progress in improving the economy. >> exactly and that he possi

remember ross perot the giant sucking sound? every single one ran on a populous platform.hey all did -- this is the first i have ever heard of this guy. that's kind of sad in a pathetic sort of statement on our current politics. but i think he probably would do decently well if he had money and people knew about him. >> it's interesting, susan and karen, regardless of a given political kapd, do you get the sense that the presidential debate is getting more pressure to focus on talking about these things? >> susan? >> not yet. we may see it if you seed enough of an outrage saying none of the above when you get into the republican nominee versus president obama. but just to step back. i don't think you're going to see real change in the parts. not until we have more than a third party. we need a third, fourth, and fifth party to break it up. otherwise, it's going to be the two against the third party and they will gang up against them. >> i want to point out one bright spot from the perspective of process in terms of having the debate we deserve. if you look at what was acco

bush, bill clinton and ross perot. it scared everybody so much, there hasn't been any repeat of that since where you just kind of went at it. >> host: do you write your own opening statements? do you have full editorial control over that? >> guest: full editorial control of opening statements, certainly full editorial control of all questions. nobody -- no questions are run by anybody, certainly nobody in the, that has anything to do with the candidates or whatever, not by the debate commission, not by anybody. it is -- the moderator clearly is holding dynamite in the his or her own hands. >> host: in "tension city" there's another player in the book. her name is kate. who is kate, and ha's her role in the debate? >> guest: kate is my wife, and because i've always been so spooked by the fact that if anybody got any advance word of what questions might be asked that would be terrific intelligence, i always lock down everybody, i just quit talking to anybody including staff of "newshour" about questions i'm working on ab

his stand aloneness against big government, reminds people of ross perot. >> the people on the hill are nearly hysterical because the budget isn't going up as rapidly as they want it to. it's a road to disaster. >> we are sitting on a ticking bomb, folks, because we have totally mismanaged our country, and we had better get it back under control. craig: as you can see, perot qualified the stand with president bush and bill clinton in those televised events in the 1982 election. that was a main factor in getting perot 19%. this may have tilted the election to bill clinton that year since perot was wildlier canned to take many votes from ronald reagan. >> i was struck in iowa the number of times i heard ron paul talk in a group about how he saw similarities between occupy wall street and the tea party that there was a dime's worth of difference between the republican and democrat party. his impulse is a libertarian and i think he'll seriously weigh this question and if he decides to run he could be a huge problem for the republican nominee. chris: can he get the 15% that gets him in that

billionaire ross perot is the richest. steve forbes comes in second, who by the way is endorsing mitt romney. romney is third. that's right. he is the third richest candidate to ever run for president over the last 20 years. he's worth, ding ding, $250 million. now, let me give you another number. 3,140. mitt romney is one of the 3,140 richest people in america. good for him. nice to know he can make a dollar. those 3,140 people are in the top .001% of all wage earners in this country. and let me make something perfectly clear. i don't have a problem with anybody that makes a dollar. i just don't want them picking on people that don't have that kind of success because that's really an elite group economically in this country. but as president mitt romney will protect these folks. the richest people in this country. while asking the poorest americans to pay a little bit more. that's what i don't like. now, if you call that class warfare, go right ahead. i think it's about fairness. the tax policy center crunched the numbers

nominee bob dole and populous candidate ross perot fought for the white house.ith ron paul's popularity growing, could 2012 play out like 1996? our political panelist back to weigh in. is ron paul going to be a third party candidate? >> i don't think so. i think there's a lot of reasons. he wants to stay in congress. he likes being on the national stage and i think he doesn't want to risk it. he wants to stay and kind of help the republican party and his son rand paul has a career in the senate. >> do you agree with that? >> i totally agree and i'm very thankful that ron paul said he won't run as a third party candidate because it would give us a problem. >> people -- come on now. politicians say things and totally change their minds and do different things. >> i hope they don't! >> is he going to do it? >> no, i don't think he will. i think rand paul's career, his son's career steps into the way there a little bit. i think he'll want to get out of the way and not harm him within the republican party by leaving the party to run as an independent. >> you believe

does get to the larger debt we have seen over the last two decades in the xap dating backing to ross perot on the soaringfation's debt and deficit, the impact on the nation's finances and some republicans claiming the u.s. is going to end up like greece. i know that becomes a talking point and not maybe reality but it does kind of summarize where this debate is now heading. >> i think by having this vote, it was in many swas symbolic because this agreement extension for this time was basically arrived in august when mitch mcconnell had masterminded this great legislative feat where republicans could vote against raising the debt ceiling but yet effectively raise it. on the floor today, you saw a senators who came and spoke the case for deficit reduction but in a balanced way. you saw senator dick durbin who is involved in the very defunct -- although everyone tries to -- three democrats and three republicans who tried to structure a deficit reduction package that included both spending cuts and revenues. you're seeing -- taxes are always a big deal. they're a bigger deal in election years.

ross perot kind of came into the spotlight and give a chance to regroup but i do think that character counts in american politics. i think the character drives perceptions of the candidates and whether they will let chollet do what they say they are going to do and actually be able to appeal to the american people. whether that wins out this time, we will see. we have a long way until november. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> please join us for the reception outside. books are for sale. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> c-span.org to the white house coverage of politics takes you to the candidate events. >> thanks again, governor, good luck. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. spread along the underside of the people of new hampshire right now. >> if you follow the campaign trail meeting voters. that is a big first step [inaudible conversations] tomorrow night watch the coverage of the results of the new hampshire primary with candidate speeches on c-span television starting at eight eastern and join the conversation by phone along with your comments fr

remember this guy, the turner party candidate ross perot with a billion and three and a half times over. it the second riches was before been. and while it is marked mit romney switch and is a little over half as much most of it is in stocks and other investments. to his campaign also this horse is worth up to a half-million dollars that belonged to his wife. want it would john hunt and is in second place worth up to 72 million. like mit romney he was born rich pip his father was one of the world's wealthy is self-made billionaires. and what didn't new gingrich's number to it. and the man belongs to rock--and the next belongs to the president of the nine listed his net worth is at 11.8 billion--is a 11.8 million. most of his money comes from the sale of his books. and ron hall is next. the is a big advocate and investing in coke so it is not surprising that most of his investments are in mining. and rick santorum has i have a day job since he was voted out of the senate in 2006. he still has a network of up to $3 million. and finally rick perry became a millionaire by following a famili

ross perot kind of came into the spotlight and give a chance to regroup but i do think that character still counts in american politics. i think the character drives perceptions of the candidates and whether they will let chollet do what they say they are going to do and actually be able to appeal to the american people. whether that wins out this time, we will see. we have a long way until november. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> please join us for the reception outside. books are for sale.legation. this id a half hours. >> may i have your attention? thank you and good evening. by name is michael powers. i'm a marketing and customer relations manager for the northeast air as the united states postal service. thank you very much. great input already. i appreciate that. i will be serving as tonight's moderator for the town -- for the community meeting for anp process. a couple housekeeping issues if i made before we begin. in the unlikely event that we need to vacate this space, the emergency exit is to my left, to my right, in front, two doors in the back. mentzer mideastern ar

so he's the republican party has to keep inside of the tents like 92 with ross perot. what do you think is the plan about congressman ron paul? >> first of all south carolina is not ron paul territory. not doing well in polls there. he's indicated he's not going to do a lot in florida this could be -- i'm not sure, i talked to a lot of people there. i asked everybody who did you vote for last time around? and maybe one person voted for george w. bush. a lot of people voted for ron paul last time around. and a lot of people voted for libertarian candidate a couple obama votes. one guy said he voted for his grandfather. he wrote in his name. bottom line is not a lot of republicans in that crowd. >> greta: south carolina. can the other candidates, i think it's going to be fierce there. kt other candidates lay a glove on governor romney? they're fired up for him. >> in south carolina and other states they'll tell you we're independent and make our own decisions. the fact is that they are influenced by the previous contest this, is the sequence of races so people in new ham

in recognition of the fact that he has strong passion, lots of followers, but he could create a ross perot situation for the republican party, what would you do to bring him inside the tent so he wouldn't torpedo the republican candidate? >> i think paul has got some good ideas when it comes to the economy, with the federal reserve. most people kind of go off the track where congressman paul and foreign policy and some of his statements about the military and iran in particular, whether or not he would defend israel, that is where we have a real problem. economically there are things that congressman paul are talking about that are right on. obviously, i don't think he wants to be outside the tent. he wants to be inside trying to get rid of barack obama. he knows the real target here is getting rid of obama. the man who has put $15 trillion of debt on future generations. let me ask yourself, america, are you better off today? the answer is no. the least bit honest can say the $4 trillion experiment that obama and his administration has put america through is good for this country. ron paul

no new taxes and the ross perot effect and that they override the man date, overstepped it only became fiscally responsible after 94. .. bill clinton had a false start from '93 to '94, got shellacked in '34 because he overread his mandate and had the good sense to learn from that mistake, and that's what really brought back the progressive centrism that he he had run and won on in '92. and you're right about george wa bush and his presidency. i'm fairly critical of it in th book because i think there was a sense among republicans that they had finally overcome, ip mean, they had brought -- they had elected unified republican control of congress for the first time since 1952 and then reelected it for the first time since the 1920s, and i think that drove a lot of the decisions in 2005 and 2006 that kind of brought about a backlash. as far as where the republicans go, and i think that thelash compassionate conservativism ofi george w. bush did a lot to kind of reinforce the frame that many americans had of the democrats, of the clinton democrats as the party of fiscal responsibility. i m

ross perot had 20% in '92 and cost the republican party, george w. bush a second term.o you have any sort of plan to sort of keep him a little bit within the tent? they are going after him heavily and aggressively. >> i'm not concerned about that, greta. i think that ron paul is a good republican. the primary race starts tomorrow. we have a road to 1200 approximately delegates that are needed for a republican nominee for the national convention. iowa starts tomorrow. a nonbinding caucus, in fact. then we go to new hampshire and south carolina. obviously to nevada in february. this is just the start. we need to treat it as that. it is important. this is no longer -- go ahead. sorry. >> greta: how about money? how is your money doing? >> money is great. at the end of november we had more cash on hand than the democratic national committee. and that is saying something. when you have the campaigner in chief out every night raising money. he's the one thing he can do well. that is campaign. raise money. yet the republican national committee has more cash in bank than the de

ross perot had 20% in '92 and cost the republican party, george w. bush a second term.o you have any sort of plan to sort of keep him a little bit within the tent? they are going after him heavily and aggressively. >> i'm not concerned about that, greta. i think that ron paul is a good republican. the primary race starts tomorrow. we have a road to 1200 approximately delegates that are needed for a republican nominee for the national convention. iowa starts tomorrow. a nonbinding caucus, in fact. then we go to new hampshire and south carolina. obviously to nevada in february. this is just the start. we need to treat it as that. it is important. this is no longer -- go ahead. sorry. >> greta: how about money? how is your money doing? >> money is great. at the end of november we had more cash on hand than the democratic national committee. and that is saying something. when you have the campaigner in chief out every night raising money. he's the one thing he can do well. that is campaign. raise money. yet the republican national committee has more cash in bank than the de

middle of july, and if that candidate has kind of billion dollar financing, could be a factor as was ross perot in 1992. >> dan rather, dan rather reports, you will be covering the florida primary live from tampa on january 31st, mr. rather i'm so grateful to have you here. >> great honor, thanks a million. see you in florida. >> indeed. >>> hey look, it's ron paul's head. we're -- that, why ron paul's head will be explained shortly. why one red state governor had hundreds of protesters pounce on the occasion of the martin luther king holiday, thaex that's next. >>> i guess there is one under appreciated benefit to living in a gated community. if you live in a gated community and there is a protest against you, sometimes if the community is gated well enough the closest the protesters can get to you is the gatehouse on the periphery of your gated neighborhood. thus leaving you in relative peace. i don't know if that is why the michigan governor lives in this community, but he did reap that protesters can't get near me benefit today. governor snyder's administration is considering whether or not

remember ross perot. he got in the race and got out of the race. he said the reason he got out was the president tried to mess up his daughter's wedding. someone said how can you mess up a texas wedding? someone show up in a sedan? >> james carville, thank you. >>> let us know what you think. facebook, google plus, follow me on anderson cooper. >>> still ahead, evangelical voters in south carolina and those stunning new poll numbers. if they're right, big if, the candidate you'd expect evangelicals to back may not get their vote after all in south carolina. >>> later in the program, crime and punishment. it was all joran van der sloot could do to stay awake in court. he seemed bored today. then he sprang a huge surprise on everyone. tell you why his trial is now delayed. congestion. nyquil:what? tissue box (whispering): he said nasal congestion... nyquil: i heard him. anncr vo: tylenol cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion... nyquil cold & flu doesn't. >>> politics now. some truly striking numbers out of south carolina. it's tradit