ross perot, george bush, and bill clinton. ross perot was leading in the three way.30, 30. he was on his way to win. what happened, i think, george bush throughout pictures about his daughter, and it stoked ross. he dropped out, and he never returned. this is a third way i am talking about. i believe president trump rose ross perot's revenge. you have the right, you have the left, you have the left, you have the right. there is a third way to take elements of both. is it populism? i don't know. i don't know. president trump was pretty involved in international affairs, so i would not call them that, there is a third way. he got spooked, --. host: let's get out response. ross perot's donald trump's revenge. or the other way around. guest: one of the beauties of a podcast as you can bring on authors. i talked to an author who wrote a book that really traces a lot of present-day political partisanship back to the early 1990's. ross perot doesn't fit neatly into today's political matrix because although he was running as an independent, he was not that really far right.

if he doesn't and he doesn't get the nomination as i said before i think trump to be ross perot at 2024nvest the entire thing up for the republican party. desantis has not announced look at his numbers he's very popular in 41 by 20 points, the reality so goes florida so goes the nation. i would not underestimate ron desantis at all. gerry: nikki haley is get a launcher bid next week, we will find out then but what is her message what will she stand for what is her identity in the republican field? >> i think that's a key question i disagree with philip a little bit i don't know that shall be that formidable in the context of her republican primary because she doesn't have a lame she's trying to be populous like donald trump at times she is a neoconservative defense talk in ways that the parties have moved on from the bush era approach to foreign policy, she's managed to upset trump polymers from the way she tries to distance himselherself from him but at te time people who are never trumper's within the republican party she is too closely associated with him having served in his cabinet

what most people do not realize about what happened with donald trump is in the early 90's with ross perotm to break the wheel in washington dc with politicians, and that is why we are seeing again today with a lot of these people we have been talking about, nikki haley, mike pence being the individuals who are looking to be president. donald trump tapped into that break the wheel, we want somebody from the outside to run this country and he did it very well. his actions show that. i think that is overlooked. when that happened with donald trump, we had a lot of people who are in that wheel who freaked out because all of the sudden politics was changed. the american people spoke and said we are done with your games. i think the only person who can continue that is donald trump. there are people who follow him, not mike pence but may beat what's his name from florida. host: ron desantis? that is ron in iowa. some of you texting. this is and in new york saying for her choices it would be asa hutchinson of arkansas, former governor of maryland larry hogan. these are middle-of-the-road guys an

1992 campaign, besides clinton, besides george bush senior, there's also a third party candidate, ross perot, a texas businessman who does surprisingly well with 19% of the vote, which is the most that any third party had gotten, i think, since teddy roosevelt in 1912. and perot runs heavily on this issue of the debt and the deficit. and if you recall, in our last lecture on ronald reagan, i talked about how reagan was able to cut taxes and he was able to add to the defense budget, but he wasn't able to do both those things and increase government revenues that in fact, the opposite happened. we had these tremendous budget shortfalls which over 12 years came to skyrocket. they had sort of tripled the debt had tripled from about 1 trillion to 3 trillion. and this made it hard for anybody. we started to see this in george bush. seniors presidency, hard for anybody to do anything with government, because there was just so much debt and just the interest on the debt alone was doing what economists call crowding out room for other kinds of spending. and there was an underclass standing among all