so this man, rowan rowntree, is a scientist with the u.s. forest service, his site is or then embed it in universities. they kind of have a foot in both camps. he really realized that we actually knew nothing about urban forests. when you compare to what you knew about a force which is harvested for timber, and that we're going to need to know many things about urban force in order to persuade this new generation of mayors and city managers that these were not simply ornaments. so he was really setting out to answer very basic questions like what was a tree or a whole urban force with what's what was the character of the whole urban force, like what percentage of it had been elms or oak? did trees really clean the air and how much? how much money did they say in energy costs? how much storm water might an oak tree absorb? so these were very basic questions which no one had any answers to. at the same conference, so this conference was really interesting. everyone who was really influential going forward in urban force tree wasn't there. and