chancellors in roy jenkins and for 20 years chris . re people - paton, who has been brilliant. i know there are people who - paton, who has been brilliant. ii know there are people who have paton, who has been brilliant. i- know there are people who have said to me _ know there are people who have said to me they— know there are people who have said to me they think— know there are people who have said to me they think it _ know there are people who have said to me they think it is— know there are people who have said to me they think it is time _ know there are people who have said to me they think it is time to - know there are people who have said to me they think it is time to have i to me they think it is time to have the first— to me they think it is time to have the first labour— to me they think it is time to have the first labour chancellor- to me they think it is time to have the first labour chancellor in - to me they think it is time to have the first labour chancellor in the i the first labour chancellor in the history— the

and then suddenly in the middle 1960s, liberal reformers headed by the then labour home secretary roy jenkinsey knew better. and the first, one the of the first things they did was they got rid of the regular preventive foot patrols, which were the great characteristic of the police, which made them a reassuring presence on every street of every town all the time. they got rid of that and they turned the police into a fire brigade, which reacted ineffectually to crime and disorder after it happened. and the other thing they did was they broke that contact between the daily hourly contact between the daily hourly contact between the daily hourly contact between individual police officers and the law abiding public. most of the members of the public, the police, meet now are not law abiding. so they develop. they refer now to the public as civilians. yes. this is a disgraceful, disgraceful event. as if the police were again a special body of armed men in the same way they have in the continent, who have nothing to do with the public and don't serve them. they don't serve the pubuc serve them. t

and it took big figures like roy jenkins and shirley williams to leave the labour party and to go somewhereas far as nigel is concerned, he's only picked up 2 or 3 so far, but if 1 or 2 of those disenfranchised, let's call them ultra tories. for students of politics, history, let's call them ultras, just for the moment, as opposed to peelites. if they started to go and follow the farage flag, my god, things would be different. but hang on, as it stands, the reform vote has helped sir keir starmer have this majority, have this big majority. >> as it stands, that has been the effect of reform . the effect of reform. >> well, the conservatives are responsible for that, i think. and actually in, in a in a sense, i think the constant argument that you must vote for us because otherwise you're going to get the labour party. i think, backfired horribly because people are now willing to suffer a little bit in the short term in order to see the gains that they did with those, even if it's just four seats, maybe it's not quite as good as the exit polls said. but matt's right. you know, this reckoning