roy wilkins did, though roy wilkins may have pushed harder than king did. it was a remarkable exchange on just the point you made. kennedy said, look, we know there's no chance for the bill to move. the southern opponents have far, far more votes to keep a filibuster. and make it impossible to pass. to push it now would lose our capital for the civil rights idea, and for ourselves. it doesn't make sense. so we need to do everything we can do to short of legislation. and king pressed for a new emancipation proclamation that would be across the board, a set of actions of the boldest kind. and kennedy wasn't ready for it. when we left, kennedy said -- i mean, martin luther king, as we went out of the white house grounds, he said, you know, i had hoped that he was going to be the president that had the understanding to understand this problem. the political skill to solve it. and the moral passion and urgency to see it through. and he said, i'm really convinced that he's got the first two. and we'll have to see about the last one. and hamilton -- alexander hami

roy wilkins did, though roy wilkins may have pushed harder than king did. it was a remarkable exchange on just the point you made. kennedy said, look, we know there's no chance for the bill to move. the southern opponents have far, far more votes to keep a filibuster. and make it impossible to pass. to push it now would lose our capital for the civil rights idea, and for ourselves. it doesn't make sense. so we need to do everything we can do to short of legislation. and king pressed for a new emancipation proclamation that would be across the board, a set of actions of the boldest kind. and kennedy wasn't ready for it. when we left, kennedy said -- i mean, martin luther king, as we went out of the white house grounds, he said, you know, i

. >> roy wilkins, he said, don't let it take you all the way to lbj. but he said, harris, if i'm honest, i will tell you that the one person who i think has fire in his belly, because of what he's seen in the south, to end it, is lyndon johnson. and then he said, but don't worry, he said, my wife is not only a roman catholic, but passionately in love with john kennedy, and she wouldn't sleep with me if i didn't support john kennedy. you can see why kennedy had an affinity toward roger's uncle. robert kennedy -- [ laughter ] robert kennedy, berth marshall

. >> roy wilkins, he said, don't let it take you all the way to lbj. but he said, harris, if i'm honest, i will tell you that the one person who i think has fire in his belly, because of what he's seen in the south, to end it, is lyndon johnson. and then he said, but don't worry, he said, my wife is not only a roman catholic, but passionately in love with john kennedy, and she wouldn't sleep with me if i didn't support john kennedy. you can see why kennedy had an affinity toward roger's uncle. robert kennedy -- [ laughter ] robert kennedy, berth marshall is the key person, assistant attorney general for civil rights. one of the wisest people i ever knew. was very cautious, very concerned with making federalism work. as you know, if you followed the dealings with governor wallace on the dealings with the governor of mississippi, and getting the -- mr. greyhound to carry the bus to the next stage and seeing it through, and seeing the -- all the force of the federal government through. they did everything they could to get the local police and the local g

and he said, is there any way to talk to roy wilkins -- he said, your father, to get them to stop this in birmingham? he said to me, he said, it's a terrible thing. it's a terrible thing to put those kids in the street. and they should be in school. i said, you know something? these kids are learning self-involvement. they are learning that they can control their own world. they are changing the world. and it's more than any lesson they will ever treat those kids in those crummy segregated schools that they prepare for them. i'm telling you, that was the way they were. [ applause ] >> so let me ask a question -- hold on one second. let me ask this question then. because i've got to get lyndon johnson's name in this conversation. okay. before we end, and we're at the end, and that is, is it fair or accurate then that lyndon johnson receives, i would say most of the credit for civil rights -- i don't want to say hero, but president associated, affiliated with civil rights, if president kennedy, however dumb he was at the beginning, came around at the end and teed up this legislation? is

and roy wilkins and others. so he was directing them, but he was the man who was behind the scenes. like our technical folks here tonight. >> can you talk us through some of those examples of his brilliance as a tactician? i mean, he was clearly a deeply appreciated by the civil rights movement in that way, and then he was sorely missed when he stepped back in part because of concerns about being publicly identified as gay and possibly doing damage to the movement. martin luther king for a while distanced himself from him. but he had -- but throughout the book we can see in several different ways and several different movements we can see his brilliance as a strategist starting from the beginning when he's in prison for conscientious objection to world war ii, and he's organizing the prisoners in the prison on to the planning of what was a precursor of the freedom ride ten yearses before rosa parks to the planning of the march on washington. can you talk us through some of those, how that's reflected in the letters and how you, um, how you, you know, how you've kind of it told that