ruckelshaus knew. and if we should name, the epa, the ruckelshaus building was the most honest public servants ever encountered. and i got to know them well. i did his oral histories for university of washington, washington state. ruckelshaus had the hard job. you guys end this. you guys know how brown versus topeka. it wasn't just about the legislation and separate but equal no good. now got to integrate the schools. what is? the whole civil rights movement. it's about making the people to brown you go to little rock in 57. are you complying going to the brown decision? you go to france elementary school and orleans with ruby bridges. are you complying king ruckelshaus is the burn telling polluting companies extraction, industries, chemical industries? we're busting you. the feds are busting you. you're not applying you're following epa standards or nepa or the clean act, which nixon signed in 1970 and soon to be clean water act of 1972. and so by the time nixon leaves, that was the end of a revolutio

today has to be different and you don't take my word for it, you can actually take the word of bill ruckelshaus who was the first director of the epa who did, you know, who sort of first implemented a lot of these laws. and so actually my book i'll just read he wrote a great column ten years ago where ruckelshaus said yesterday's solutions worked. well, on yesterday's problems. but the solutions we devised back the 1970s aren't likely to make a much of a dent. the environmental problems we face today. and so we have to change our mindset to deal with the types of problems lots of little bits of ocean, lots of using energy and having small impacts. in puget sound, where i work on salmon, one of the biggest problems is simply tire rubber bits of tire rubber that go into the water. and if you try to do the same kind of top down 1970s approach to those problems, not going to have success and that fact is what we're seeing is is that a lot of those problems are not being solved, which is why a lot of the people on the environmental left are turning to these sort of distributed technology based, inno