omb to rudy giuliani. there's a couple of zero time calls from rudy giuliani to a, the omb number. maybe that was a pocket dial or butt dial then at 15:57. 3:57, 40 odd minutes the call with the omb number, there's a 22 sexd call with tsecond call the white house switchboard. a 17 second call. a couple hours later. seems like he's trying to get ahold of somethibody and is not being put through with the duration of these calls. >> this adds to the evidence people saw in those public hearings because this is all happening, this log is august 8th. on august 9th, we know from public tennells that became public, and i'm reading again from this new report you have, sondland saying potus wants a deliverable on august 9th, you have ambassador volcker saying we've consulted with everythion quote, including rue di, let's get back on the phone. so we knew there was a lot of plotting going on. what's new is not only is rudy giuliani in the center of this plot, we knew that. but rudy giuliani is having what sounds like lengthy conversations with the budget office and a day later, the so-called

sometimes to contradict witness's testimony and here we had testimony that the president charged rudy giuliani with carrying out this plot that he told ambassador volker and perry and sondland to talk to rudy, and, in fact, ambassador volker testified about talking to rudy so so naturally we wanted phone records to show they had those conversations and indeed they did. it is very important to point out, margaret, we did not subpoena devin nunes call records and not any journalist call records, and that is simply false information being pushed by the president's allies, but the fact that mr. nunes or giuliani or others show up in brennan: d i do want to you. explain to our viewers we are having a couple of technical issues you may have noticed there, that is going to happen with a new set but our cbs news coverage of the house impeachment hearings will continue on this network tomorrow as well. we will be back in a moment. tomorrow you should tune in to see norah o'donnell cover the hearings you just heard chairman schiff describe. stay with us and bring in congressman mark meadows. congressman

rudy giuliani and who, and is that the president of the united states? we'll find out maybe. >> i thought your interview with chairman schiff was fascinating for several reasons including your line of questioning about when did devin nunes know he was busted. >> right. >> and how did he know it. >> as you know, the committee usually shares information with everyone on a committee, right? and so when i saw that today i thought when did they tell nunes they had him? >> and i took the chairman to be saying to you they gave him that information among other material in a stack, whether he did or his staff did the homework is up to them. >> how could they miss it? >> there's that. there's this very mysterious interesting tantalizing material about who is minus one, negative one, all the different mysteries. obviously as the chairman said rudy giuliani's formal relationship is with the president. so it would be a reasonable inference that would be one of his intended calls. the other surrounded texts in april when he first makes contact with the budget office a

if the president were to rank his own top aides and rudy giuliani, giuliani would be between somebody else and president trump. number three, most of the president's aides and lawyers do not want mayor giuliani on television because so many things he says are provocative, and some things he says contradict each other on established timelines and put not only mayor giuliani's story in question but some of the president's explanations in question also, and that's what's been problematic politically. >> his aides may be uncomfortable, but we often see this disconnect between his aides and the president, because it seemed like a month ago the president was opening the door to distancing himself from rudy giuliani, and that doesn't appear to be the case anymore. it seems pretty clear that president trump himself appreciates whatever role giuliani is playing in this whether it deflects or distracts from the president himself and focuses on giuliani and his antics, or he still truly believes he is the type of messenger that's effective in trump's response. i think if president trump truly di

rudy giuliani at the white house today.relationship with the president rather than getting weaker has only grown stronger through all this. >> that's right. what he told us is he feels like their bond has strengthened in some ways because the president feels like the same thing has happened to him as has happened to rudy. rudy is under investigation now by manhattan federal prosecutors and he's a big part of the impeachment inquiry. the president feels like he's gone through this before with mueller and now begin with impeachment and according to rudy feels like they are in this together. you also have this terrific piece of reporting about the call that rudy giuliani said he received immediately after landing back in new york from his trip to ukraine. what can you tell us about that? >> he says that as he was ta taxiing down the runway in new york on saturday after a trip that included stops in kiev and vienna and rome that the president called him and said what did you get. rudy giuliani said more than you can imagine. th

rudy giuliani was explicit. this was not foreign policy, we'll be quoting with the words that are highlighted. it will be very helpful to my client, my only client is the presidentnl of the united state he's the one that i have an obligation to report to. were you aware on that same day mr. rudy giuliani gave an interview about what he intended to do and let's go to slide 18. >> this is from "real clear politics." it should be on the screen in front of you as well. what mr. rudy giuliani said about the ukraine, "it is a big story, a dramatic story, i guarantee you joe biden will not get to election day without this being investigated, not because i want to see an investigation," you agree election day refers to 2020 election where president trump will be running for reelection. >> i guess you are right. >> that was my only question to you. you will have to answer questions from the minority council. now and president trump show you -- >> we'll sidestep the volker meeting in 2018? >> let me go to slide 19, please

the rudy giuliani i know is the rudy giuliani that fought the mob when it wasn't a popular thing to do. he put his life on the line on 9/11. if anyone ought to get the benefit of the doubt, it would be mayor giuliani. >> i don't think it's giuliani that's the problem. it's who sent him, congressman. who is paying him? why is he there? if this is foreign policy, why is mayor giuliani involved at all? >> i don't know. >> you need to defend the president, you must know. >> no. what i can do is point to the democrat of nsc official, mr. morrison, who said when asked about giuliani's involvement, that he wasn't concerned. he didn't think it was anything inappropriate. >> he was the only one. >> it was unusual. and our country has -- our country has a history of using people in a nonprodecisitraditi to engage in foreign policy. the president has engaged with me to carry a message outside of the official channels. i don't think there's anything wrong with that inherently. if rudy giuliani did something wrong, there's a process to deal with it. >> there's a couple of investigations going on. w

>> i think rudy giuliani, yeah.ly the only thing i have a problem with. >> and congressman dent, to you, i think this may have got lost in the thanksgiving holiday. you've been hearing from republican colleagues or some of your republican colleagues who are dismay ed by the president' behavior in this. what exactly are you hearing in. >> well, this is nothing new, john. i serve there under donald trump as well. yes, i would hear regularly from my colleagues who would be frustrated, angry and dismayed about comments he would make. because he would always put these members in a difficult position. they would be forced to respond to some absurd comment. and they didn't like to walk by the gaggle every day and try to answer or defend the indefensible. yes, this is nothing new. many are quite angry, to be sure. >> and congressman duffy, you brought up rudy giuliani which is interesting this morning because giuliani is on some secret mission again. he's overseas -- >> 007 here. >> let's play what he said. he did an interv

there were five calls from rudy giuliani to the white house situation room. then there were texts from kirk volker and then that night there were a lot more calls from rudy giuliani to the white house switch board and the situation room. there's a lot connecting rudy giuliani to the office of management and budget which is inexplicable to most americans. there would be zero reason why rudy giuliani would need to make those kind of phone calls. there are calls between devin nunes -- adam schiff declined to talk about that but between devin nunes and parnas and fruman. there's a lot of people who seem to have a lot of communication with each other. >> that's exactly right. rudy giuliani, just centering on him for one moment, he basically was the head of this shadow foreign policy that we talked about during the hearings and questioned witnesses about. ambassador yovanovitch was basically recalled for the purpose of having rudy giuliani and the three amigos lead this foreign policy and they had broad sway with regard to what they could do in ukraine regarding ou

call logs show nunes and rudy giuliani called each other looking at these five times on april 10th, whichafter giuliani published unproven conspiracy theories on ukraine, pushed them, sorry, on fox news. so then he has these calls with devin nunes and two days later on april 12th, four calls made between nunes and lev parnas. lev parnas is now indicted and one of giuliani's associates who was digging for dirt on the bidens and ukraine. so nunes was talking to both of these individuals multiple times as this theory is being publicly pushed on fox news. gloria borger, joe lockhart, press secretary for president clinton during his impeachment investigation and former prosecutor laura coates. let me start with you, how bad does it look for devin nunes who is on the intelligence committee? >> it looks pretty bad. if i was a member of the house ethics committee, first of all, i would look into this and ask questions about recusal, whatever the rules are, governing recusal in the house of representatives or disclosure, and i would be asking questions for devin nunes and i don't know if adam schi

just be a cloud around hem. >> we have breaking news about rudy giuliani. ambassador marie yovanovitch. kristin, what did rudy have to tell you. >> well, steph, rudygiuliani, and this is by text message, he doubled down that yovanovitch was standing in the way of his investigations in ukraine. we know those investigations included the dna even the bidens. let me read you the dex message that he sent to me. he said i have witnesses and now documentary proof that she was denying visas to ukrainians wanting to come to the u.s. and testify in the collusion with dnc. biden bribery, and yovanovitch. now they have documentary proof. let's just pause there on that last little bit. now they have documentary proof. what giuliani is saying is that he has proof, based on that recent trip that he took to ukraine drk i pressed him on what specifically is this proof that you have, this documentary proof, he would not get specific about that, he would not get specific about what he meant by testifying. we're still trying to drill down on that. we said are you still plannin

revealing white house chief of staff mick mulvaney would leave the room whenever trump talked to rudy giuliani, raising questions about whether he himself had doubts about giuliani's actions and the defense he later offer to have had scheme. watch this. >> what you just described is a quid pro quo. it is funding will not flow unless the investigation into -- into the democratic server happened as well. >> we do -- we do that all the time with foreign policy. >> all the time with foreign policy. that reporting also revealing that in late august, defense secretary mark esper, secretary of state mike pompeo, and national security adviser john bolton had a previously undisclosed oval office meeting with trump where they tried but failed to convince him to release that money. today senate democrats arguing the new reporting bolsters their case for witnesses at the impeachment trial. as speaker pelosi continues to withhold the actual impeachment articles and trump is lashing out, tweeting a series of attacks on speaker pelosi throughout the weekend, the latest of 48 tweets he sent about her since th

, rudy giuliani does not work for the u.s.ernment or the american people. he should not be involved in matters of states. so if there are actual matters of states that mulvaney is stepping out for, for the president to be able to discuss with, with rudy giuliani, that means the president is using him in a way that is potentially national defense matter or security matter. certainly ukraine was an important national dispense matter. it really is quite a serious matter on this unusual relationship that they have. it is just a blurred line between personal and official u.s. government. >> alex, i will give you the last thought. >> there is nothing more costly than free help. that's a real concern here when rudy giuliani is not accepting a paycheck from this president of the united states. it really does raise a question, all of this work he's doing on the side and around the world, who's benefiting from that? hopefully, the president of the united states but we don't know. >> all right, tomorrow i am calling any attorneys i ever

rudy giuliani is alegend. there are four whistle blowers that yovanovitch silenced -- is there any truth to these stories, please tell me. >> stephanie, it is hard to render a judgment until we have seen whatever evidence rudy giuliani choose forward. i can tell you this much. i know from talking to rudy giuliani's associates. they were making an effort to get some of the ukrainians over here to talk about the conspiracy theory that ukraine interfered in the election. it is plausible that yovanovitch denied visas to some of these people for completely proper reasons because a lot of these people were tied to russian back parties in ukraine and we have to remember the context here. rudy giuliani is under criminal investigation. number two, it is becoming increasingly clear that the whole idea that ukraine interfere was a product of vladimir putin and his intelligence services. there is been classified briefings of members of congress describing and a plot by russian intelligence to insert this narrative into th

shared a tweet from rudy giuliani. o men friday after giuliani returned from ukraine, among claims giuliani is making former pr former prosecutor says he was poisoned, died twice and is back. this is the president's lawyer. i mean, what? i think his followers or supporters are holding tight with him. also if you look at the polling, it is not just among the public at large, it is independents that moved in the last couple months to support impeachment. democrats are united. he has to be thinking about that as well. that's why i think it is becoming more frenetic and insane. >> everyone stick around. thank you so much. maybe we can talk it out. the united states reaching out to north korea to try to ease growing tensions. stay with us. tax-smart investing, what's new? -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lem

>> rudy giuliani is trump's lawyer. so we proved in our case donald trump is rudy and rudy is donald trump. and they are inp inseparable, but lawyers act on behalf of their clients and almost everyone that knew of this relationship said rudy was asking as trump's guy. and donald trump told them talk to rudy, he's my guy. >> are you surprised as the ranking committee member, you know, devin nunes of california he's been opposing all this investigation was in fact an operative. he was moonlighting. he was on the phone with rudy's bunch, with lev parnas, did that surprise you when you learned that? >> no, a lot of things surprise me. that did not surprise me at all. he's got priors. he was the midnight runner in the russia investigation going over to the white house. but i guess maybe what was surprising for the american people was that the ranking member used all of his time during a serious impeachment process not to get to the facts, understand what it meant, but to falsely attack the chairman when now we've learned he

not treat what rudy giuliani is peddling here.nd look at it in the way that i think it needs to be seen, which is that the personal lawyer of the president of the united states who helped extort this foreign country to try to get the president his personal political help for his campaign in which he's being impeached over right now, that whole scheme is ongoing. giuliani was in ukraine again in the last couple of weeks and he continues to go around pedding these lies and sounds like this is going to be part of the president's strategy during the upcoming impeachment trial. >> the president seems to be distances himself from rudy giuliani a little bit. not like he's really putting his arms out and saying don't come near me. he called rudy giuliani a great crime fighter the other day, but kind of indicated he doesn't really know what he's doing. not sure how many people really believe that. one of the things that has bewildered me is if you want to say that donald trump should not be impeached because you don't think the conduct is

the phone records also show five phone calls tween rudy giuliani and republican congressman nunes on 10. and two days later, devin nunes-a nearly nine-minute phone call with giuliani's associate, parnas, who is now a criminal defendant. joining us is ari and host of "the beat." and a msnbc legal contributor. ari, i asked chairman schiff about the phone call not clearly identified. rudy giuliani and who? is that the president of the united states? we will find out, maybe. >> i thought your interview was interesting for several reasons, especially did devin nunes know he was busted and how did he know it? >> the committee usually shares information with everyone on a committee. so when i saw that, i said when did they tell nunes they-him? >> and i'm curious. i took the chairman to be saying to you they gave him that information among other material in a stack. whether he and his staff did their homework is up to them. >> it could have been buried. but how could they miss it? >> there's this mysterious, interesting, tantalizing material about who is negative one? all the different myster

that it was because the president instructed them to work with rudy giuliani. of course, you can read in the president's transcript that he released of his call with the ukrainian leader, he tells the ukrainian president, work with rudy giuliani. i'm going to have him call you three times. that has been a central point in all of this. it's likely going to come up in the hearing today. rudy giuliani's role and that report yesterday just put him more at the center of all of this. >> jeffrey toobin, this is a pretty big deal. it's one thing for the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani to speak with officials at the white house, but it's another thing to be speaking to officials at the office of management and budget. what does he have to do with that? >> well, the only implication that i can think of for why rudy giuliani would be speaking to the office of management and budget is that it was connected to the withholding of aid from ukraine, which is a central part of this ukrainian investigation. why else would he be talking to the office of management and

my client worked for rudy giuliani in mr. giuliani's capacity as president trump's personal lawyer.ours ago, federal prosecutors in this case have now written to the judge that's overseeing the lev parnas case to say that they, the prosecutors, no longer believe it is safe to allow lev parnas to be out on house arrest with an ankle monitor while he's awaiting trial on these felony charges. prosecutors say that he is a, quote, significant flight risk and he should be remanded to custody immediately. they say, quote, it is difficult to overstate the extreme flight risk that mr. parnas now poses. why did they change their mind on whether he needed to be in jail or not? before, they were fine with house arrest. why now do they say, oh, no, you got to put this guy in jail? according to this filing from prosecutors tonight, they say they have just realized that mr. parnas lied to them about his financial situation and his assets after he was arrested, when they were going through the process of setting his appropriate bail terms, he lied to them about something big. what specifically? wel

come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today. >>> new questions this morning about rudy giuliani not enough already and whether he's continuing his back channel efforts in ukraine even as the impeachment investigation intensifies. "the new york times" reports that giuliani met with several ukrainian prosecutors in budapest and kiev this week. giuliani was asked about this in a new interview. listen to this. >> you're in ukraine now. i didn't know you were going. what's the ukraine trip all about? >> well, i can't really describe it. i can't even confirm it. all i can tell you is that i'm doing today all day and all night maybe what i've been doing for a year and a half. i'm representing my client. >> can't confirm it or describe it. >> why not? >> what's going on here? back with us joe lockhart and elie honig. and alisyn camerota also. rudy giuliani is in ukraine meeting with some of the same people. this impeachment investigation is largely in part due to rudy giuliani messing around with ukrainians trying to get them to investigate joe biden. the fact he is there on the eve of

while he was working for rudy giuliani in giuliani's capacity as president trump's personal lawyer.r the president and somebody in russia is sending him a million bucks, really? the impeachment proceedings are under way literally as we speak in the judiciary committee. they're marking up and debating these article of impeachment right now. there's no factual agreement for the things on which the president is going to be impeached but this new question tonight on why somebody in russia wired a million dollars to one of the guys who carried out this scheme for him in the middle of the scheme, that's all still rolling out literally tonight. i mean, it's rolling out in the ongoing investigation by the intelligence committee. it's rolling out in the federal courts as various oversight groups start to pry loose these records of the president's behavior that they have tried to hide inside the trump white house. and tonight it is rolling out in the southern district of new york where federal prosecutors tonight are asking a judge to lock up one of the key players who carried out these order

his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, seems equally uncha sent tonight.alking openly about his ongoing hunt for political dirt in ukraine saying he has the president's support. >> reporter: rudy giuliani is still running his own game of i diplomacy. he said president trump was supportive of his efforts in ukraine. >> how much has rudy giuliani shared about his recent trip? >> not too much. he's a great crime fighter. he's a great person who loves our country and he does this out of love. he does it oit of love. >> reporter: he stopped short of saying whether trump directed him to go on his recent trip but we're on the same page, he told cnn. his comments back up a central argument for democrats if favor of impeaching the president that trump and his personal attorney have pressured ukraine to pursue investigations to benefit trump politically. in his latest media blitz he admitted helping recall former ambassador to ukraine. a well-known anticonstruction advocate. i believe i needed her out of the way, rudy giuliani told the new yorker. she was going to m

. >>> also new this morning, president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani is unloading in a sprawling new interview after his trip to ukraine. giuliani claims without proof that the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine was controlled by billionaire democratic donor george soros. giuliani says he's quote, more of a jew than soros who is a holocaust survivor. rails an expletive filled rant against prosecutors who are going to investigate him. kristin holmes live in florida where the president is spending the holidays. >> that was quite the interview. we've actually seen his personal attorney rudy giuliani around west palm beach. he's been taking selfies skprgs he's been spotted at mar-a-lago dancing the night away, mingling with guests. if you weren't paying attention, you might not know this man was at the center of an meeflt impe of a u.s. president. when it comes to that looming senate trial, i would not expect any kind of christmas miracle to break the impasse between democrats and republicans. while congress is not in session these lawmakers have not been quite spreading the holiday c

that doesn't help the president. >> i mean, mike, rudy giuliani is currently under investigation by federalrosecutors in new york, in part for his work in ukraine, and trump campaign sources, you know, they're telling us that they're worried about it, they're worried rudy is a liability for the president. why do you think, mike, that the president does not see it like that right now, i mean, clearly he doesn't. >> i think there's two things. first of all, the president is never going to back down. one of the reasons why the president's supporters love him so much. in their description, they saw a republican who wouldn't back down and compromise and stick to his guns through thick and thin. he has gone down a path where he wants to find out what happened with burisma, hunter biden and joe biden when he was the president of the united states. if rudy is the one who's going to find him, he's going to back him up. secondly, he believes something did happen, and he wants to find out what happened. he really believes and it looks very fishy, that things went on with hunter biden while he was vice

>> rudy giuliani is the president's lawyer and the president and rudy giuliani cleared and smeared ambassador yovanovitch so that the president could cheat an election using your taxpayer dollars for his personal gain. that's abuse of power and that's why we're voting this week to impeach the president. >> do you believe that the way giuliani is conducting himself is helpful to president trump? >> no, but it also demonstrates that the president did not abuse his power in the past tense. he is abusing his power in the present tense, in that when he hears from senator mcconnell that he's going to be acquitted, the signal that he receives from that is a green light and he believes that he can continue to abuse the power of his office to cheat the upcoming election, which gives us the urgency in the house to act. >> senator schumer wants mulvaney and bolton to be witnesses. do you believe rudy giuliani should be added to that list? >> i'm going to go with senator schumer on this. i think he's being surgical in the four witnesses who would fill in a lot of information that we did not receive. we s

rudy giuliani is showing that.o to the ukraine and continues to lie about these fake conspiracy theories and it's sort of walking argument for what happens when you leave power unchecked. >> abby, here's the thing. you have these moments in this when today from mr. castro where you say what's going on. there's some basic facts here. still this guy was unable to say it was a fact. let me play the exchange. >> sir, would you agree that joe biden was a leading democratic contending to face president trump in 2020? >> i wouldn't agree with that. >> you disagree. it's your testimony -- >> it's too early. >> that president trump did not view president biden to be a legitimate contender? >> i don't know what he believed or didn't believe. it's too early. >> this is a basic fact. in every single poll joe biden was the run away front-runner. >> he didn't say the leading contender. he said a leading con tenter. i happen to be covering president trump during this time when he was tweeting about joe biden on a regular basis ta

if the president wanted rudy giuliani to stop, we probably would have stopped hearing from rudy giulianirovides this -- things the president wants to hear and maybe some senate republicans might want him to stop being a distraction because every time he opens his mouth there's a new story, a distraction. i think this is something the president seems comfortable with. he's playing to the base. rudy giuliani seems to be here to stay. i don't expect him to be silenced any time soon. >> the president's lawyer says they want to put bill barr in prison and execute me. i want to get your reaction. >> when it comes to extreme language, rudy giuliani kind of takes the cake here. the idea that there are people who would want to execute the president's personal attorney is just another way for rudy giuliani and for the president's defenders to send a message to the president's supporters that democrats that anyone who doesn't agree with the president is out of control. there are dangerous consequences to this kind of language. if we look at this rhetoric that was used throughout the impeachment hea

and you might say okay, ari, but anyone can call anyone and rudy giuliani is rudy giuliani. maybe he was just calling around. no. these receipts, these new records, these call logs show omb, office of management and budget also initiating calls with giuliani, and having them for several minutes, over ten minutes, what look like substantive conversations and those calls coming the same day pedaling conspiracy theories, tweets again in august around the same couple of days while trump aides rode out their plot to take this money, to seize money, your taxpayer dollars to extort ukraine so there wouldn't be a fair and free election in 2020. this report has a lot in it that you have to care about, regardless of what you think is going to happen in the house or the senate. this is a report about efforts on the record now, because the record suddenly has been released to steal an election, to subvert your democracy. as i said at the top of the broadcast, not a drill. it puts new heat on giuliani, because you can bet new york prosecutors have them, too, or are about to get them. and

rudy giuliani talking to the white house six times.i talking to lev parnas, his associate who's been indicted. and this mysterious number one which we'll get to in a minute. as a legal matter here, jennifer, what do these phone records show you in. >> well, this was a conspiracy. all of these people who were doing this smear campaign on yovanovitch, withholding the aid, it was a bribery and extortion conspiracy. people who talk a lot during a conspiracy are often involved in the conspiracy. if you're looking at this, it's can we put thus person who was previously outside or questionable like devin nunes inside the conspiracy? >> here's devin nunes' own call log. the ones that have been put into the report. four times on april 1th he talked to lev parnas. >> he's talking to giuliani a lot. also lev parnas who has been indicted. >> indicted for funneling russian money contributing to a trump super pac and a congressman's campaign. why is congressman devin nunes in april before we knew lev parnas' name talking to lev parnas. >> at the ris

in the call. >> right, because they knew rudy giuliani made the president happy, and if they made giuliani happy, they would make the president happy, correct? >> he said he was practically fuelling the president's views, so they had -- there was some discussions about, hey, if you can convince rudy that president zelensky is a true reformer, the real deal, that that would be a beneficial link. >> so you agree that rudy giuliani, before the july 25th call and after, was pushing the ukranians to investigate former vice president biden, correct? >> he gave a pretty good account of his meeting in july 19th. >> if we can put up slide 16, the "new york times" one you referred to. this is dated july 19, 2019 before the call. mr. jewel july sagiuliani says travel to kyiv in the coming days and wants to meet with the nation's president-elect to urge him to pursue inquiries about two matters of intense interest to mr. trump. one is the origin of the special counsel's investigation into russia's interference, and the other is the involvement of for

do you think this is a good idea to subpoena rudy giuliani to testify in any impeachment process? >> yes, do. i think it's a great idea. mr. giuliani has been sort of center stage on so much of the activity and we've heard very little directly from him aside from the occasional press conference. it puts republicans, i think, in a mind. so, i would think are the a democratic perspective it would be tactically useful. >> let me play devil's advocate for a second. the argument goes if you bring rudy giuliani he's going to also want to then have to discuss or want to discuss hunter biden, bre burisma and try to make that center stage. that's what he's out there investigating, the various conspiracy theories out there. do you open a bit of a pandora's box, by bringing in rudy giuliani you're also going to have to touch those things that have those individuals hauled up in front of the senate. >> possibly. bear in mind that a trial is overseen by the chief justice of the united states, so he would make rulings on relevance and other evidentiary issues including attorney/client privilege.

why was the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani so involved with ukraine? set it up. >> as the president, when he was asked about this the other day, rudy was doing this out of love. we know it was a personal political errand for the president. rudy giuliani said as much in a series of interviews over the past few days. even republicans said this was bold and brazen for him to go back to ukraine during impeachment and to be doing the interviews. what he has said is i needed yovanovitch out of the way, that was the former ambassador to ukraine. he said she was going to make the investigations difficult for everybody. these were not investigations that had to do with u.s. security. one of the complaints about yovanovitch is that she was so tough on corruption she had alienated a number of prosecutors in ukraine. the investigations he was talking about were things that originated with the 2016 election and the unfounded theory that the dnc's computer serve is hidden in ukraine. u.s. intelligence said no, it was hacked by russian intelligence. then it became a p

rudy giuliani is a step away from imprisoning himself. is no one else out there talking more trying to get themselves indicted than rudy giuliani. i think he needs a lawyer himself other than trying to represent the president of the united states. in fact, i think it is also fair to say that rudy giuliani literally has walked this president to the doorstep of impeachment. i dare say we might not be here but for rudy giuliani and the way that he talks and cav orts around. but i also have to give props to newsy on this piece. it is amazing piece. and the fact that he's so attention starved that he misses the days that he was the mayor of new york that he'll do anything to sit in front of someone and blabber on or sit in front of camera. i just feel if he wasn't such a criminal, i would feel sorry for rudy giuliani. it's -- he's doing a detriment to his client. i could honestly say that as an attorney, on my professional oath and when you look at rudy giuliani, there are a number of people who could do the president better service than him a

i mean, rudy giuliani obviously was the key person here. i mean, the fact that devin nunes, who has been a total, toady, and someone who has done nothing but carry the white house's water since the president was elected, you know, that's not a surprise, but what's so important here is that the president outsourced this whole operation to rudy giuliani whose interests are not those of the american people. they're only those of donald trump. >> yeah. >> and potentially rudy giuliani who clearly has business interests in ukraine -- sorry, go ahead. >> i was going to say, i agree that the main story is what donald trump did, there's no question, but i think that we can also care about what devin nunes did, and i agree he's been a stooge for trump, and that's not particularly surprising, but to sit there and to be leading the republican side of this investigation basically of the hearings, and to not disclose this relationship to what he's actually investigating, i still think that matters. it may not be as important as trump, but it still matte

rudy giuliani when they were putting pressure on president zelensky. it's interesting to me that mr. nunes continues to be a part of this overall scheme trying to help the president covering up this information while conducting investigations. i do know that the committee on ethics will be investigating these phone calls. >> now that you've seen the report, what should the articles of impeachment will prepare, what should they include? >> reporter: first thing we want to do is have this hearing tomorrow with constitutional experts, impeachment experts. we will be exploring the standards of impeachment. for me it's important to look a -- at the overall pattern and assess the risk. what happens if we allow a president to abuse the power of the office? what will happen to our democracy? i think it's important to have the hearing tomorrow before we make the decisions. i do believe strongly that we will be looking at the abuse of power and i feel strongly that we should be looking at obstruction of justice by the president. >> there's some debate among your

rudy giuliani.on friday to discuss the findings from his fact finding mission to ukraine to attempt to dig up dirt on the bidens. you say giuliani is acting on his own is creating a counter intelligence vulnerability. is that correct? do you believe that? >> absolutely. he's apparently according to him collected a lot of good information. air quotes. i wonder how much of this information actually emanated from russians. who try to feed this narrative. when they can point to ukraine as interfering in the election of 2016. and divert attention away from them. putin will be happier than a pig in the sunshine about this. the way this is going. i question the providence of this information the russians have strong -- for feeding of strong motivation for feeding the false or fabricated information about corruption or whatever it is he's gathered in ukraine. >> a shocking admission in new yorker telling the reporter i believe i needed former u.s. ambassador to ukraine yovanovitch out of the way. she was go

rudy giuliani, are you okay with him in the midst of all this going back there and doing more diggingd if so, on what basis? >> i'm seeing conflicting reports of what rudy is doing right now. >> if he's there. if he's not there, god bless him, i hope he's safe. >> that's not relevant to the impeachment question, it's not relevant to what the congress is doing right now. we were talking about the hearing today, i don't think the democrats moved the ball at all. i think the american people are very frustrated by this. every witness today was forced to admit they had no personal knowledge at all about any material fact in the schiff report. >> they're just historians. i don't disagree with you about any of that. they were just historians today. turley made a couple arguments in '98 that were interesting to hear his take on the state of play today. but a lot of that was academic. i don't disagree with you about needle so much. but i think rudy matters 100% and not because he's the bad guy. i don't think rudy giuliani is the bad guy in this story or the fall guy. i'm saying how can it not

>> i don't know what they do with rudy giuliani's statements. he's had so many of them in the past as well. certainly from an evidence law perspective they would be admissible against trump because he is -- giuliani is trump's agent. we're not operating by the traditional rules of evidence. we're in a political process. whether or not the democrats want to use those, it would seem that hearsay is going to be admissible in that senate trial. they could admit it as hearsay through those reports and just add it if you will to the volume of evidence they already have proving what the scheme was. >> i wonder, julian, would you want to get rudy giuliani up there because he told this to adam en tus and i don't have the quote in front of me right now but he said he wanted to get marie yovanovitch, the ambassador to the ukraine out of the way because he felt like she was standing in the way of these investigations. does that not mean that someone like rudy giuliani is someone that should be necessary in order to make this a fulsome or a well investigated

rudy giuliani offered him a little little help with his problems with the doj, if he would give mr. iani help in ukraine. lev and egor are going to be back in court monday in new york. we may learn more about the trajectory of the case against them. a whole bunch of people have been served with subpoenas for information related to rudy giuliani and his company, and according to reuters reporting, related to potential payments to mr. giuliani. the impeachment proceeding is one thing on capitol hill, but there are also these parallel criminal cases. which are related to and happening simultaneous to impeachment. as the impeachment proceedings steam ahead, are these criminal cases likely to produce more information. are there any worries about the ways in which they may interintersect or interact with each other. having to do with congressional immunity. lev's lawyer wants some sort of congressional immunity for his client. that's why he offers all sorts of damning sounding things, if council just brought him up to capitol hill. just how serious are these criminal cases as far as the le

the rudy giuliani i know is the rudy giuliani who fought the mob and it wasn't a popular thing to do. he put his life on the line in 9/11. if there's anyone that ought to get benefit of the doubt. it would be him. >> i don't think he's the problem. it's who sent him. who's paying him. why is he there. if there is a logical extension of foreign policy as you argue this was about. why is mayor giuliani involved at all? >> i don't know. >> you must know. you need to argue to defend the president. you must know. >> what i can do is point to the testimony of official morrison. who said when asked about giuliani involvement that he wasn't concerned that he didn't think it was anything inappropriate or unlawful. >> he was the only one. >> our country does have a history of using people in a non-traditional way. the president even encouraged me to meet with foreign leaders and carry a message now and then outside of the official channel. there's nothing wrong with that inherently. if giuliani did something wrong which i haven't seen evidence of of course there's a process to deal with that. >

but rudy giuliani and the office of management and budget, what reason could rudy giuliani have to talkeason could the president's personal attorney have to talk to the password government that controls finances? >> so that's a real mystery. it has not yet been solved. mick mulvaney, the acting chief of staff is also the head of omb. and we don't quite know how those numbers have been coded, why it's been coded omb. so one mystery is is that actually mick mulvaney, the president's chief of staff? also very interesting for him to be talking to him but maybe not necessarily directly about budgetary issues. on the other hand, could it be an omb staffer or that rudy giuliani was talking about this issue of military aid all the way back in april? at this moment we just don't know. >> what about negative 1? who could that be? >> negative 1, the widespread thought is that it is likely the president. there's sort of a striking pattern of calls in which rudy giuliani calls the white house switch board and then very soon thereafter receives a phone call back from this negative 1 number. so it wou

rudy giuliani had no right doing what he did. it's unethical. he's making money at the same time he's doing this, but they won't say it because they're there for their president. >> rudy giuliani makes them uncomfortable. there are still outstanding court cases and rudy giuliani is one from the district of new york and he's being investigated. even if the senate trial happens expeditiously, we could still get more information about ukraine, about the mueller investigation for months to come after that because of these court katsz. >> if barack obama walked into the white house and we still had a republican white house, they would say, no problem? >> i think the last time i was on this set we were debating whether or not trump was going to dump rudy. we said, he's bad for trump, he's bad for trump. we got the answer. he walked into the white house today, he got the call taxiing down the runway on thursday. these two are together for quite some time. >> i think that's correct. there are some people around trump, around giuliani saying, he should b

>> i'm basing it that whether he sent rudy, talk today his buddy, the president is involved -- >> inserted giulianio the foreign policy process as far as ukraine but i just want to make sure -- >> rudy was in it before, he was involved in mueller hearings, he's intrigue -- integral part. howie: trying to knock him out with leaks as the president's lawyer, the media give him a tremendous platform to go on the air and make his case including on this program. gillian: till the present day, he continues to get a tremendous amount of air time, print space across all sectors of the media in many ways rudy giuliani is, you know, the brainchild of the media, they don't get a lot of access of the administration and rudy giuliani, a way to go straight to the vein of the administration. howie: he is the president's lawyer, and television is the president that he likes his supporters and surrogates to communicate. when we come back how press covering president's surprise visit to afghanistan, msnbc [ electrical buzzing ] [ dramatic music ] ahhhh! -ahhhh! elliott. you came back! ♪ ♪ ♪ howie: president trump mad

again, lindsey graham has said he's interesting in hearing from ruth bader ginsber rudy giuliani. >> porter: we know that senator graham and some of his fellow republican chairmen in the senate are not only hearing they from giuliani but many of the specific witnesses giuliani wants to come forward with information. what's so interesting about that is that these are the very same things that president trump was impeached for, trying to get ukraine to investigate 2016 and the bidens. giuliani moving forward on those unabated. >>> coming up, wine cave. democratic candidates launch a full attack on mayor pete buttigieg for his fund-raiser at a lavish california winery. as a struggling actor, caly i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the first fda-approved medication of its kind, tremfya® can help adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis uncover clearer skin that can last.

you see rudy giuliani and the president in this letter trying to advance more and more -- >> in fact doing better than he was at the beginning of the impeachment process. >> giuliani also told "cnn today" he and president trump are quote on offense when digging on dirt on democrats. what does that look like, foef? if this is the beginning of offense i can't imagine. >> like the president, giuliani knows the value of sucking up the oxygen in the room and getting the attention on him. >> everyone stick around. we have more to talk about. more reaction from members of congress of president trump's letter to nancy pelosi. stay with us. who've got their ea under control. with less eczema, you can show more skin. so roll up those sleeves. and help heal your skin from within with dupixent. dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis, even between flare ups. dupixent is a biologic, and not a cream or steroid. many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin. and, had significantly less itch. that's a differenc

so-called irregular diplomat channel george washington, wilson edward house was rudy giuliani and harry hopkins richard nixon, next, jimmy carter jay paul and ronald reagan bill clinton, with bill richardson, barack obama valerie jarrett donald trump rudy giuliani many, many, more, ladies and gentlemen don't forget watch me on levin tv give us a call to sign up 844-levin tv or blaze tv.com/mark, blaze tv.com/mark. we'll be right back. [sneeze and sniffles]