bush and donald rumsfeld even went so far as to make grandiose predictions about how the war would bewed by history, despite what they really knew was happening behind the scenes. >> the history of military conflict in afghanistan has been one of initial success, followed by long years of floundering and ultimate failure we're not going to repeat that mistake. >> what has taken place in the last four years in afghanistan is an historic achievement and the people who have been involved in it can be enormously proud. and -- and history will look back on it as having been an amazing accomplishment >> seth: i'm honestly not sure if these guys were ever right about anything, ever like, these guys were so wrong about so many things, there's a good chance don rumsfeld wasn't even his real name it sounds like an alias dick whitman would use to get a job at raytheon. suffice to say, history will not look back on it as an amazing accomplishment if anything, i think it's much more likely that, when they get to the chapter on afghanistan, future textbooks will just say, "file not found. of course

i mean, some said that in the a bit your ease of donald rumsfeld, they were far too kind to him. i mean, what did you make of the? i mean, millions, tens of millions were killed, wounded or displaced in that these was, oh, it was obscene. i mean, the missionaries were largely obscene. it's one thing to dance on someone's grade. but when that person created countless graves masquerades, i think we need tell the truth about it. and the truth is don rumsfeld role in american politics is highly nefarious and it was long term meaning like the youngest, then older secretary defense, i believe the secretary front place is the cheapest, stafford gerald ford. she's been fighting to unshackled the presidency as i was mentioning earlier, throughout a whole career. i mean, dick cheney is his protege, not the other way around. people forget that. he represents a strand of american conservatism that when hyper imperialist in the most old school sense and was sort of on apologize about it. and he was a disaster for us politics for the pentagon and for the world. and his ill should be rejected h

and secretary rumsfeld said no, no, what do you think? again, this is a one star, he doesn't look up. he says no, no, sir, i scratched that. secretary rumsfeld put his hand on his shoulder and turned him so he looks at him, we put that star on your shoulder for a reason, you're in this meeting for a reason, and i want to know what you think. i think that's so important. you've got a purpose. you've got a reason to be there. that's very tough in a white house environment. >> one of the best books for people starting out and starting their careers is the one that rumsfeld's -- [inaudible] >> great for life. >> that's a great book. if you are a young person watching this or if you have somebody who is going to graduate, this book is really good for everybody. i learned a lot in that book. and -- >> yeah, it's a great gift book. >> i also talk a little bit about yes, you were there for a reason, and other parts of the book i talk about listen more than you talk. and in another part of the book, i say don't take your phone to these meetings. >

these are the rumsfeld's, the cheney, the wall forces. these are idealogues, more so than bush himself, who believe that the executive branch should be able to basically wage war and a certain american hedge many unilateral. and that after vietnam, congress dot too powerful the american people got too hesitant about using force. this is all vietnam syndrome, and that's the problem if you unshackled the presidency and do what needs to be done, the re all policy crowd, then you know, then will, when course they were wrong. but then there's also a little interventionist, which in some ways has been a stronger strands of american sort of imperialism. this is the wilsonian. this is the sort of civilized the world spread democracy and the free market along the way, of course. and that's like the samantha powers and the hillary clinton's into large extent, joe biden, although he's been better on i've got to stand throughout his career. but backing all of this is a professional class of the tanker analysts policy makers awaiting the wings and adv

at the very time that your rumsfeld was meeting for you were meeting with saddam hussein. i think we have some video that of that meeting. tell me what was going on during this. where did you get this video from the iraqi? tell them this is from iraqi television. when did they give it to you recently or back then we've dug this out of the sea and in library, i say, isn't that interesting? there i am with the our war on terror begins out. but it does not in the 33 war on terror is irrational. it's like saying a war. and when the serious pro office launched his investigation into the crimes that we were uncovering, it turned out that many of these arms deals had been forced through by tony blair personally. he's a dedicated arm salesman and once you start a war you open and kind of pandora's box, you don't control and it controls you today. good, dennis, and matt did is the bad better said those in yemen who the united states names to be a threat. the good terrorists are those who are inferior. the joke here is we've been there before. i mean, if you consider the amount of t

he ended it with one word, and it said "help." >> woodruff: and that was the late donald rumsfeld.te during the obama administration and then into trump, and, of course, this new administration. >> that's right. this happened with all of the presidents. people may recall back in 2014, president obama said that the war was coming to a conclusion. there was actually a ceremony in kabul, at nato headquarters, and the u.s. official said that the combat mission for u.s. troops was over. and yet behind the scenes, the pentagon and obama all knew that u.s. troops were still going to be in harm's way and people were dying in combat during the duration of the war. more than 100 people died in afghanistan, u.s. troops, after obama said that mission was coming to an end. >> woodruff: you cite one military leader after another, i'm thinking of general patreus, very critical of biden, saying he sould have none tht the afghan military was fighting off al-qaeda and isis. but he said things were going well, when they weren't? >> we heard this month after month, year after year, under bush, obama a

the department defense in secretary rumsfeld's room and a classic military.here are senior military two, three or four stars appear but the briefing would be given by a one star and that's one star is feeling jr. so the secretaries at one end of the table in the table in the one star is sitting to his life in the one star is clearly nervous and going through his briefing. first of all he had a powerpoint and that was fine because it was in color. and the briefer doesn't even look up. your rights are at it just through an secretary rumsfeld to what you think it again this is a one star. he doesn't look up and he says i scratched it and i won't read the next iteration of it. he put his hand on his shoulder and turned him to as if to look at him and he said to put that star in your shoulder for a reason. for in this meeting for a reason. i want to know what you think. i think that is so important. you have a reason to be there. >> guest: one of the best things for people starting careers of rumsfeld's. this book is really good for everybody. i learned a lot in t

but it was in color and in secretary rumsfeld's world it was in color and then secretary rumsfeld saiddo you think? that i would not be the next and then to put a hand on his shoulder and he turned him so he had to look at him and said we put the star on the shoulder for a reason you're in this meeting for a reason i want to know you think. and then you have a reason to be there. >> one of the best books starting out. >> great for life spend if you are young person watching this or somebody that will graduate that book is good for everybody a learned a lot from that book. and then another part i say. >> so take an actual notebook your bosses will see that and appreciate that you will learn more that could be a very important text. >> i'm stunned and it may have gotten worse with the zoom meetings but i'm stunned that the most important person in the room is c there and people are sitting back in their chairs doing this. you said in your book everything will be okay. are they taking notes? are they looking for information? playing candy crush? so if you go to class and pay attention he

and you do a secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld was convinced that mohammedan retreated 3 of the 911 hijackers. he personally authorized a 90 day special project status on how to do with her and as consequences. 7, the order to abuse prisoners was unlawful. but to build up to that unlawful order, they need a justification. and so what they did was they sent a colonel to guantanamo to look and try to justify what was going on. and he said, going kind of will be, is america's battle lab. and the moment i heard that it evoked memories of nuremberg, it evoked memories of what the nazis were doing. experiments, the things they started with was live the professional regime. and then in mass guy brought to the song, it was very dog except for oblige. and then he stops playing the music lid for body. think the small for the long you know, you, i cannot explain to one someone is doing shackle chuckles on the floor and a group of people, 2 women and a guy come and talk to them on to me. the know that war has a moral imperative. america after $911.00, was shocked. and i think we had been deeply

rumsfeld said no.e even before that in october when afghanistan said, we will hand over osama bin laden, bush said no. >> i do think the taliban offers of bin laden were a bit overstated. they had the opportunity to do that and i think they were not sincere. the question i think you're raising, which is important, there were opportunities to try and bring the taliban into the fold after the u.s. invasion in 2001. the taliban government was toppled relatively quickly. in retrospect, that was the moment to try to bring these factions together and afghanistan, to try to have some kind of consensus of a political system. instead, the u.s. thought it wanted clear-cut military victory. not just defeated the taliban, but vanquish them and lumped them in the same boat as al qaeda and terrorist groups. it saw no need to negotiate with them. the problem is over time the taliban gradually came back because unlike al qaeda, they were woven into the fabric of afghan society. this was not a group you could eliminate

amy: that is donald rumsfeld speaking on december 6, 2001. the u.s. in afghanistan would continue for almost 20 more years. according to the cost of war project, the u.s. has spent over $2.2 trillion in afghanistan and pakistan. by one count, at least 71,000 afghan and pakistani civilians died in the fighting. afghanistan is now facing a massive humanitarian crisis and the taliban is back in power. while mullah mohammed omar died in 2013, his brother-in-law mullah abdul ghani baradar now appears set to become afghanistan's next president. well, today, we are spending the hour with the pulitzer prize winning reporter spencer ackerman, author of the new book "reign of terror: how the 9/11 era destabilized america and produced trump." the book is based in part on his reporting from afghanistan, iraq, and guantanamo. spencer, it is great to have you back. congratulations on your book. we are talking to you in the midst of this chaos in kabul as thousands of afghans, americans, and other nationals are attempting to flee afghanistan. the taliban have taken

differently. saudis and other arabs when they came to britain to be all to help the bomb steal your rumsfeld was meeting saddam. isn't that interesting? there? i am. shadow on al jazeera, the latest news. as it breaks. the storms spared the worst, her long island, which fear to direct it, but it's still with the high wind and high wave with detailed coverage, the government continues to still still red pieces and all the children. not only put them from around the world, hundreds of children have been born to women abused by fighters. in addition to social pressure, you can only carry their religion if both parents are leading around the world. a powerful entities are working to manipulate and influencing control. taking algorithms that are being developed in, designed to push content that says quick me every click we make is the value that sold off what, what ends in the 3rd of our 5 last series raise in mexico. examining how the propaganda and probably shape content all fails, the algorithm jeviana ah on hasn't c k and don't have the headlines on i just, you know, several rockets have been

zillow, you'll rumsfeld this meeting. saddam, is it that interesting? there i am. shadow wild on al jazeera, the city of cobble has experience so much evil for decades. and this is another change to get used to, and one that's far from easy situation. and now it's not clear. the people are just lost and confused. there are deep rooted fears about the erosion of basic price in particular for women and girls. despite assurances from the taliban and about return to true punishments for certain crimes, everybody will be safe. nobody's kid will be kidnapped again to rants. now together that feeling that way forward into the new reality. ah, i have some stories here and i was 0 and joe biden says the us lead evacuation of americans and vulnerable afghans has accelerated finances, more than 11000 people have been lifted from capella for justice. we can't, it's not clear of this number includes non us evacuation flight. he's been under 5 . the pull out of us troops coincided with the taliban. taken over. almost all the country. full of l is in washington, d. c.

this was when they said they were finished but donald rumsfeld rejected the idea. when asked about the possibility of such a deal said, quote, the answer is no. he wanted an unconditional surrender. how did that work out? just to be clear, no one is saying that afghanistan would have become peaceful or violence-free, only that we wouldn't have spent the next 19 years fighting an unwinnable war. more than 2,400 u.s. service members were killed in afghanistan. so were an estimated 66,000 afghan military and police and 47,000 afghan civilians, over 400 aid workers and more than 70 journalists. all at a u.s. price tag of $2 trillion. the bush administration failed to ending the war early on is one of the many gross mistakes that they made, including allowing osama bin laden to escape afghanistan. according to a senate report from 2009, bin laden was, quote, within our grasp in december 2001, but the administration let him slip through their hands. quoting from the report, the decisions that opened the door for his escape to pakistan allowed bin laden to emerge as a pot

dick cheney and donald rumsfeld, the two people who kicked this whole thing off, they made money off this war. i think it was something like 70% of the $2.5 trillion was spent on this war went back into the pockets of u.s. military and politician warmongers. so it is time to get out, and it is unfortunate it transpired in this way. host: do you think the mission has been achieved over there, the expressed mission of preventing or stopping terrorists over there, preventing attacks over here? do you think that mission has been achieved? caller: i think, initially, i will not say mission accomplished to the extent that the idea was to break up al qaeda, the taliban, initially, and that was done. but then the mission changed and suddenly became about nationbuilding. i think we undermined that initial success and created more terrorists, and now at this point, we gave the country back to the people that we were supposedly fighting against. and that was all done last year. host: thank you for your input. melbourne, arkansas, republican line. caller: good morning, and thank you, c-span. i r

hello your rumsfeld was meeting saddam. is it that interesting? there? i am. shadow on al jazeera, investigative journalist and government panic. they didn't have the infrastructure they needed. they promised results in 5 days, but it's been a year examining. the headline. is this another potential flashpoint for conflicts? voice is from different corner. every house here has someone who has made it to the top of ever. it's not the one but several times. program that has been, you know, kind of you today on algae ah, ah, annapolis, born with aliya in doha. thank you miriam, the wait to see little messy in action is over. as he finally made his debut for paris danger, mom, the arjun time came off the bench after halftime on sunday night against the room. he played for about 30 minutes as he continues to build match fitness. his last match was the co america final in early july, there was no classic messy moment, but his team did win to know both goals. coming from fellow superstar killian and bob manchester united have broken the premier league record for

consistently and deliberately hidden from the public back in 2002, then defense secretary donald rumsfeld, was worried that the mission was drifting. but never mentioned it publicly. rather arguing there was no point in negotiating with the remnants of the taliban more than a decade later, to an american diplomat had the same concerns. the 1st question of did we know what we were doing? i think the answer is no. if there was ever a notion of mission creep, it didn't get this done. we went from saying that we'll get rid of ok. so they can threaten us to say we're going to end the television, then we said, we will get all the true. the telephone works with then further to have in our exit strategy b. s. table government. and again, it's done. we have to say good enough is good enough. that's why we're there. 15 years later we spoke to scott ritter. he's a former marine corps intelligence officer. believes the documents do confirm what was open secret documents may not have been available. the information contained in these documents was well known to experts and specialists, and could have

were consistently and deliberately hidden from the public can 2002, then defense secretary donald rumsfeld was worried, the mission was drifting. you never mentioned publicly, rather arguing that there was no point in negotiating with the remnants of the taliban in the decade later though in the american diplomat of the same concerns. the 1st question of did we know what we were doing? i think the answer is no. if that was ever a notion of mission creep up again, it's done. we went from saying that we will get rid of ok the so they can threaten us to say we're going to end the taliban. then we said we will get all the truth the tell about work with then further to have our exit strategy b. s. table government, and again, it's done. we have to say good enough is good enough. that's why we're there 15 years later on there that are in chief of wikileaks, as recent events in afghanistan, vindicate the groups lakes. although he is a guy supported by all the revelations that came out of the documents by we can use 11 years ago. some of them, of course, went from earlier period ca, documents, dip

consistently and didn't brittany, hidden from the public back in 2002, the ben defense secretary donald rumsfeld, was worried. the mission was drifting, but he never mentioned it publicly brought the altering that there was no point in negotiating with the remnants of the taliban. more than a decade later, an american diplomat had the same concerns. the 1st question of did we know what we were doing? i think the answer is no. if there was ever a notion of mission creep up, get this done. we went from saying that we will get rid of ok, so they can threaten us to say we're going to end the taliban. then we said, we will get all the troops the telephone works with then further to have our exit strategy b. s. table government, and again, it's done. we have to say good enough is good enough. that's why we're there. 15 years later, the editor in chief of woodson says, recent events in afghanistan vindicate the group slicks all those years ago to supported by all the regulations that came out of the documents published by we can use 11 years ago. some of them, of course, were from earlier period ca, do

you'll rumsfeld was meeting saddam, is it that interesting? there? i am. shadow on al jazeera, me, the conflict between the if you can government and the regional take, great people with the racial fund has killed thousands and internally displaced more than 2000000 over the past 7 months. 350000 people in the region are facing famine, according to the united nation, which says that our vision is being used as a weapon or for those who managed across the border. se, if not because they have improved back home, they say to continue to be targeted because many of these are being reported and all they come to taking refuge conditions here. last time, idea in 1085 for young anti apartheid activists were murdered by south african security forces. if you've gone solve the problem by removing the guy, you could keep that 36 years on a family's quest for justice. reveal systemic resistance to prosecution. and must all be convicted for taking my father away from me and exposes the influence, the former a part i just stablished, still wielded in the new south

consistently and deliberately hidden from the public back in 2002, then defense secretary donald rumsfeld, was worried that the african mission was drifting. but never mentioned it publicly . rather i'll give it, there's no point in negotiating. what he said was the remnants of the taliban a more than a decade after that american diplomat had the same concerns. the 1st question of did we know what we were doing? i think the answer is no. if there was ever a notion of mission creep up against on, we went from saying that we will get rid of ok so they can threaten us to say we're going to end the taliban. then we said, we will get all the truth the tell about work with then further to have our exit strategy b. s. table government. and again, it's done. we have to say good enough is good enough. that's why we're there. 15 years later, back in 2011 julian song said the ultimate goal of the us military campaign in afghanistan was to create an endless war dot, a successful, one of wiki licks editor in chief, told me last hour. with the new documents vindicate the group leaks a decade ago, to su

bush and rumsfeld both said no, and then we went to war. just like we did, made up the excuse for going into iraq. there is a price to pay. war should be a last resort. host: you recently did some research. where did you do some research? caller: online. i vaguely remember because i was following all of this after 9/11, but i looked online and saw it in a newspaper article also. don't ask me what newspaper it was. host: maybe time for one more call as we wait for this morning's security council meeting to get underway. u.n. ambassador linda thomas-greenfield is in the room as well as the secretary-general. but have not started yet. we will hear from sandra in new orleans, republican. go ahead. caller: ok. i would like to say to everyone who has called in about war, that america started wars, america, the united states did with the revolutionary war. we took over the native americans's lands. we have done a lot of sins, but it is stupid to think this world or the united states of america will have peace. there is always going to be wars. the

then defense secretary donald rumsfeld, is worried that the afghan mission was drifting, but never mentioned publicly. rather arguing there was no point in negotiating with the remnants of the taliban more than a decade later, to an american diplomat had the same concerns. the 1st question of did we know what we were doing? i think the answer is no. if there was ever a notion of mission creep, it is of get this done. we went from saying that we will get rid of ok so they can threaten us to say we're going to end the taliban. then we said we will get all the truth. the tell about works with then further to have in our exit strategy, be a stable government and again, it's done. we have to say good enough is good enough. that's why we're there 15 years later. well, as we heard back in 2011 junior sons did assert the ultimate goal of the us military campaign in afghanistan was to generate massive profits for american defense companies. we can, each editor in chief told my colleague, call him bright earlier today that the u. documents to vindicate new groups leaks over a decade ago to supported b

instead of finishing 2 years later, when that mission was accomplished, according to then donald rumsfeld, you're not just decided you couldn't go to another war in a walk and then tried to change the transformed in the police. that certainly did not work out. when they were good intentions or not, i am not here to judge intentions, but if they wanted to really transform women and that was the world doing it from, from or through the air force and military, military occupation, better news and not work out. and i would, i was one of the people who would say it could have never worked up. you can have a military co said to transform women's destiny in the most a world. and yet, yes, there was progress. yes, girls did go more girls went to schools. yes. kept enjoyed, certainly better life than the previous 6 years on the part of life. but none of that was necessarily better for the ganges, and none of the price was chucked with the gun as if they want to pay the price for it. there was and there was a big destruction to communities and sponsible. that's all. remember housing that pre 973, s

and then later on, you know, i was don rumsfeld, guy at the nato summit, where afghan stan decided to, or nato decided to take on the mission. so i'm sure that you know, people spinning it negative would give me personally a great degree of culpability. but look, what we saw was we never fully addressed corruption within the afghan government. and what we've seen here is not a military defeat. we've seen us failure of morale, a collapse of government, where forces decided not to fight because they had no confidence in their leaders. so really what it shows it's difficult for them when they rely on us air power and not us air power. 5 is pulled out from under them. well they, there was an effort. there are significant if you look at the satellite, those of our sri, there's a lot of aircrafts that just stay static and who are defended. but yeah, i take your point. what we're seeing is this idea that you can build a modern military without having a corresponding civilian government and the like painting over russ. i mean we, we had a civilian government that was fundamentally corrupted,