a very famous, very notable animal rights leader, a law professor at rutgers, and he has come up with abolition obviously borrowing from the abolition of slavery. and realize that animal rights activists believe that what is done to an animal should be perceived in the same way as we would perceive the same thing being done to a human being. therefore, since cattle ranching in false control what cattle do and where they go, it is an odious to slaver. this is what is literally believed by true animal rights believer, not an animal welfare believe which will get into, but in animal rights believer. gary is very candidate he cooperated in my book. he knew i was going to criticize him, but he agreed to be interviewed, and i trust and i tried very hard to present his position, not only accurately in terms of what he said but also accurately in context that that was very important to me, because i consider gary to be very radical, but he's a principled radical. i disagree with him completely but he is candid about what he believes in, and he has a lot to tell us. and he said to me, quote we