dionne, and ruth conniff, political editor of the progressive magazine.at to have both of you with us tonight. e.j., you first whom. would get hit the hardest? i mean, if we were not to pay our bills, who gets hit the hardest and the soonest, actually? sooner than anybody else? >> i'm glad what you did what you just did, because i think one of the problems with this debt ceiling fight is that it's such a ridiculous idea on its face that congress has to vote again to say we'll pay our bills, that most americans figure it must be more spending. and it isn't. so it's really good that president obama went out there today and is continuing to hit at this and say this is not about more spending. it's about saying we're going to pay our bills. and because no congress has ever been crazy enough to do something like this, to say we won't increase the debt ceiling, we don't fully know what the damage is. you're right in that list. if the government can't pay its bills, the government will get hurt. most damaging to most americans, especially people out of work is t