, from rwanda.to institute the program. have handbooks created that are handed out to every person who enters one of these command or governmental positions upon taking office, telling them of what happens to them if they begin eliminationist assaults, to dictators, to everybody. put everyone on notice and make it clear that you're serious, institution wise, the u.n. they should give them out the european union, the united states. send them along. the african union. other regional organizations. make it clear. so the first thing to do is to is institute -- create the program, notify everybody in the world and put a lot of muscle behind it rhetorical and others and set up the system so it's not just talk. and notify everyone that this will happen. and then if a leader is stupid enough to put it to a test, you have the international authority that is created through treaty to declare -- to identify eliminationist assaults to declare that one has created and has started and the bounties and the bombing

what can we learn from rwanda. mr.armer i was impressed with your observations with the progress that's been made in rwanda? . how do we learn from our experiences so that we not only focus on what needs to be done in haiti from the point of view of longer term sustainability including governance issues and international assistance and investment and jobs -- what can we change, i guess, on the overall strategy of this country in trying to avoid another haiti in the future? >> thank you, senator. i believe that, you know, that change that you're referring to has to begin inside haiti. and when we talk about, you know, governance and leadership, again, we have to remember that this country rose to become independent back in 1804. so again i'm personally, you know, skeptical about trusting entities that in my opinion have not delivered. again, all you have to do is look at the response or lack thereof of the leadership in haiti. so as we move forward, i believe that we need to partner with leadership that has utmost integ

my model for that is rwanda. dr. paul farmer who is my deputy at the un and has worked in haiti for 25 years, his foundation and mine went to rwanda and it helped rebuild the entire health care system in three years. four years after the genocide in 1998, per-capita income was two under $68. 10 years later, it was $1,100. it had nearly quadrupled. [applause] a lot of you were part of that. do not tell me they cannot do this. this is an opportunity to read imagine the future for the haitian people to build the country they want to become, instead of to rebuild what they used to be. we have to get through the emergency. we have to get it organized, and we have to have the right structure and support. i invite you to be a part of that. and i can tell you this, and then i will turn it over to the other panelists here. after we had that investment conference in port-au-prince, we did what we always did. we went out and said, how did you like it? how you feel? you're is the most important thing, those of you on the outside

by then, they want no foreign aid going into rwanda. behalfs last fall, -- >> last fall, all of the hotels and port-au-prince were fooled by people coming down to get hotel rooms that wanted to invest in haiti. i think there is good news out there if we can marshal our resources. >> to follow up, and to go back to what i think each of you are saying, as you look at longer terms, is the first priority governance? who should look to take responsibility to do that? is it the international community? is it the united nations? is it oversight from this committee? and the state department? as oppression from the asian american community? if it is governance to get that done? >> as i suggested, i think that in the securities sector, and the general political support of the parliament, i think the un is the best place to do that. in terms of resuscitating ministries like education and transportation and agriculture, it is probably somebody else. it may vary. a single country may decide they will fund public education in haiti. the japan for the

s left rwanda in a huff. i any in retrospect many would argue they really were right to push a tough line on this. in summary, and part of it will be in your hands and part of it will be in the habbeds of the u.n. and part of it's going to be in the hands of the local government. >> mr. dobbins, you've been on the institutional side of this. what do you think? >> i think it's important to make a distinction between the relief phase. if there's one thing that the international community and the u.s. does well is disaster relief in these kinds of situations. it looks messy when 1,000 different autonomous organizations, n.g.o.'s, governments and international institutions all show up but it works and it works remarkably well. and it is working in haiti. that doesn't really require fixing in my view. it requires resources. people are generous and it is the best resource thing the international community does. you then have the question of moving beyond relief to recovery and driving that recovery toward instituti

my model for that is rwanda. dr. paul farmer who is my deputy at the un and has worked in haiti for 25 years, his foundation and mine went to rwanda and it helped rebuild the entire health care system in three years. four years after the genocide in 1998, per-capita income was two under $68. 10 years later, it was $1,100. it had nearly quadrupled. [applause] a lot of you were part of that. do not tell me they cannot do this. this is an opportunity to read imagine the future for the haitian people to build the country they want to become, instead of to rebuild what they used to be. we have to get through the emergency. we have to get it organized, and we have to have the right structure and support. i invite you to be a part of that. and i can tell you this, and then i will turn it over to the other panelists here. after we had that investment conference in port-au-prince, we did what we always did. we went out and said, how did you like it? how you feel? you're is the most important thing, those of you on the outside

what can we learn from rwanda?i was impressed by the observations of progress being made in rwanda. how do we learn from our experiences so that we not only focus on what needs to be done in haiti from the point of view of long-term sustainability, and on the overall strategy, what can we change to try to avoid another haiti in the future? >> i believe that change you are referring to has to begin inside haiti. when we talk about governance and leadership, again, we have to remember that this country rose to become independent back in 18 04. i am personally skeptical about trusting entities that in my opinion have not delivered. all you have to do is look at the response or lack thereof from the leadership in haiti. as we move forward, i believe that we need to partner with leadership that has the utmost integrity, leadership that puts haiti and haitian people first. >> here is the dilemma. the governments are what they are. we can try to impact them and the way they develop the institutions of democracy that can p

it has resulted in thousands of jobs for rwanda's and has created successful infrastructure, all withitional eight contractors. if such programs can be made in rwanda, which was the poorest country on the face of this earth, one hopes it can be made elsewhere. our mission must be to note that if there's any silver lining to this code is that we can push job creation. there is a strange irony of tha[unintelligible] there is the quite notion that people should be paid for their labor. let us be honest. it is absurd to argue that voluntarism and food for work programs will create sustainable jobs. if we've set the ground rules on reconstruction correctly, we will be able to create sustainable jobs. as a doctor, i can tell you that bad infrastructure and a faultless policy are visible in the bodies of the port as the benefits of good policy and will decide infrastructure. i have witnessed many political interventions in haiti and multiple coups. they have been pleasant and unpleasant, even if they pale in the shadow of what we are currently experiencing proof man. many say that haiti is h

there's millions of christians in uganda and rwanda and sudan.these tend to be more conservative on some of these issues-- much more conservative, especially on the issue of homosexuality. and where their place is in the international christian family is very much up for grabs in this particular debate. >> indeed, christianity is growing. i think it's a great shock for people to realize that there are many more anglicans in africa than there are episcopalians in the united states. >> there's twice as many anglicans in sudan as there are in thunited states-- just one big country in africa. i don't think we're anywhere near catching up with what this means, not only on social issues but on doctrine, worship life, and all the rest. what's it going to mean, not very long from now, that christianity is essentially an african religion and not a western one, not a north american or european one? >> you're seeing that, to some degree, in the debate about global warming. i do think the environment is another area where we're going to see continuing activi

[laughter] >> as you reflect on that experience, what you think went wrong in rwanda? what was necessary to fix in both the u.s. and the international capacity to respond. >> many american officials, including president clinton have spoken on this. i was a director on the staff at the time, the most junior position. that was before i took on responsibilities. and i've often reflectedt hat our -- reflected that our greatest failure in the u.s. government was not that we ever took a decision not to act, it was that we ever confronted the question. we never actually had, until it was too late, a policy discussion at the deputies level, the principles level, about whether or not the u.s. or the international community should intervene as the genocide unfolded. if you look at the record as i have, one of the remarkable things is that they were not editorial pages screaming for american intervention. there were not large nor the people standing up in the floor of the house of representatives insisting on american intervention. it was unique to the moment in time, 1994. a wee

for years after the genocide in 1998, rwanda's per-capita income was still to under 68. -- $260. two years later, and nearly quadrupled. [applause] and what did you were probably part of that. to not tell me they cannot do it. -- do not tell me they cannot do it. this is an opportunity to rebuild what they want to be routed them what they used to be. country they want to become, instead of to rebuild what they used to be. we have to get through the emergency. we have to get it organized, and we have to have the right structure and support. i invite you to be a part of that. and i can tell you this, and then i will turn it over to the other panelists here. after we had that investment conference in port-au-prince, we did what we always did. we went out and said, how did you like it? how you feel? you're is the most important thing, those of you on the outside of you need to know. 97% of the people who came to the investment conference agreed with dennis o'brien. they said they were surprised by the positive opportunities available there for them. i want them to become you. i will

the president of rwanda, he is one that i think everyone agrees is one of the greatest leaders in thestory of africa, he is the one in the genocide of 1994 that wiped out most of his population, was able to go back in now. if you go down from the airport to the capital area of rwanda, you would think that you're in an american city. in fact, it's much cleaner than many american cities. he has done this and has been able to put this back up. well, he also came from the bush as a warrior. again, he is -- as great a person as he is, and i say the same thing about the president of iew -- of uganda, there is a reluctance to admit they can't handle this probably themselves. and the president of congo. congo used to be called zaire. it's a gigantic area. we remember the stories of the explorers that went there and were able to get all the way across the congo, taking months and months to do so, many of them losing their lives. well, back when -- when the congo was having serious problems, president cabilla senior was there and he was actually killed and his son joe cabilla took the reins of

should we intervene militarily in rwanda? i don't have answers to those questions but again there as we consider how we posture ourselves going forward in the 21st century the azar debates that we do need to have so that we may be would have done as a people in a little bit of emotional and mental preparation before the next crisis humanitarian or otherwise is on us and we feel compelled to make decisions on the spur of the moment. in terms of taxes and the funding of a conflict administrations have to make those choices. war is expensive. they have to be funded in some way the decisions on when and whether to raise and lower taxes again are all a part of the debate administration's need to have and the american people need to be involved in. >> host: joining from arizona is dean of the republican line. >> caller: i wanted to ask mr. crocker along the lines of the other call first call i just watched on monday the british inquiry about iraq and their involvement in the war and they were safe in the fact in 2002 general tony f

growth, health, and good governance -- countries like south korea, thailand, mozambique, botswana, rwanda, and gone up. -- ghana. and we have supplied humanitarian aid to countries on every confidence in the wake of hurricanes, earthquakes, famines, floods, and other disasters. americans can and do take pride in these achievements which have not only helped humanity but also helped our nation project our values and strengthen our leadership in the world. these efforts have not been the work of government alone. most people do not realize that we contribute less than 1% of our budget to foreign assistance. assistance. over the years the american people have opened their hearts and their wallets to causes ranging from eradicating polio in latin america to saving the people of darfur, helping people in asia purchase livestock to investing in micro enterprise. to this private giving exceeds the amount our government spends on foreign assistance. today we call on that same american spirit of giving to meet the challenges of a new century. not only giving materially but giving time and talent.

rwanda, torn by genode and vil war, now stable and even sending aid to hai. he's recommending a ten-ar rebuilding program for haiti >> ifill: now we beginhe first in a series of cversations about the evolvi nature of al qaa. margaret warner has thstory. luis ruedapent 28 years in the ci mostly as an agent d station chief in the field, includi in the middle east and uth asia. his last assignment was dwep tee rector for counterintellince at the cia's counterterrorism center. where he dlt with double agent operations and secuty. heetired on january 1st on the heels of theoiled christmaday airliner plot and the deadlyouble agent attack oa remote cia tpost in afghanistan. i spoke to him earlier today at his home capitol hill a. thank u for being with us. >> thank you for havinme. >> warner:sama bin laden or a voice sayg he was osama bin laden th weekend iled the christmas day bomb attempt, the same attack that al qae had already taken crit for. now one, do you believe th is oma bin laden, but more importantly what-- if so, what does is a about how al qda is operat

rwanda, torn by genocide and civil war, now stable and even sending aid to haiti. he's recommending a ten-year rebuilding program for haiti. >> ifill: now we begin the first in a series of conversations about the evolving nature of al qaeda. margaret warner has the story. luis rueda spent 28 years in the cia, mostly as an agent and station chief in the field, including in the middle east and south asia. his last assignment was dwep tee director for counterintelligence at the cia's counterterrorism center. where he dealt with double agent operations and security. he retired on january 1st on the heels of the foiled christmas day airliner plot and the deadly double agent attack on a remote cia outpost in afghanistan. i spoke to him earlier today at his home on capitol hill a. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> warner: osama bin laden or a voice saying he was osama bin laden this weekend hailed the christmas day bomb attempt, the same attack that al qaeda had already taken credit for. now one, do you believe this is osama bin laden, but more i

rwanda in the 1990's. question for americans -- we hold to universal ideals that in our view apply to the entire world, not just to americans. at what point should we contemplate the use of our force for purely humanitarian reasons? should we intervene militarily in darfur? should we have in rwanda? i don't have answers to those questions. as we consider how posture ourselves going forward in the 21st century, these are debates that we need to have so that we might as a people have done some mental and emotional preparation before the next crisis, humanitarian or otherwise. and before we feel compelled to make decisions at the spur of the moment. in terms of taxes and the funding of the conflict, administrations must make those choices. wars are expensive. they must be funded somehow. decisions on when, whether and how to raise taxes are all part of the debate administration's need to have and the american people need to be involved with. host: the republican line. caller: along lines of the other caller a

means it is there are always new, attractive tragedy's coming down the road, whether it be darfur, rwandaople are able to catch international attention. so what you have is an erosion of easy money going to let us say, haiti, and going to a new cause. haiti has rarely gone the full budget that had been pledged to it. the haitians can never really planned on the assuredness of the amount of funds that will become an to them. another factor here is, the development model used in haiti is so often self-serving instead of meant to aid the haitians. a small example -- president clinton may have been concerned with u.s. national interests or his own political interests, but this does not necessarily coincide with haitian national interest. in fact, in the clinton period, aide was reduced to haiti because of the fact that aristide woiuld not de-centralie the cement company. the government also owned the telephone service. washington told ever skied -- aristide, de-nationalize those properties because we want open markets here. he refused, and the country was cut off. host: north carolina. arthur

growth, health, and good governance -- countries like south korea, thailand, mozambique, botswana, rwanda and gone up. -- ghana. and we have supplied humanitarian aid to countries on every confidence in the wake of hurricanes, earthquakes, famines, floods, and other disasters. americans can and do take pride in these achievements which have not only helped humanity but also helped our nation project our values and strengthen our leadership in the world. these efforts have not been the work of government alone. most people do not realize that we contribute less than 1% of our budget to foreign assistance. the balance is made up by the generous spirit of americans and is reflected across our nation's landscape, from farms to civic groups to churches to charities. over the years, the american people have opened their hearts and their wallets to causes ranging from eradicating polio in latin america to saving the people of darfur, to helping people who are poor in asia purchase livestock, to investing in michael enterprise. this private giving exceeds the amount our government spends on forei

then get to rwanda, kosovo and the second term. momentous lean with the george w.ush and george h. w. bush to have a 9/11 and the fall of the berlin wall and a pattern that was not easy to identify. -- that was easy. we are searching for a pattern rather than reacting. that only the frame of the discussion today. i would take note that the lack of gender balance because i am sensitive to this issue. i would point out that the issue as a better performance than the random acceptances of our invitations. these two women could not make it even by telephone but their essays are in the magazine. some of you will note them quite well. immediately to my right, the henry a. kissinger senior fellow and a bed -- and a board member of the new american foundation. he is a distinguished fellow at yale. that is a big title. he writes regularly for "the new york times," "the l.a. times," and others. his most recent book is "god and gold." "american foreign policy and how it changed the world" receive the prize in 2002 and "god and gold" to him that last year or the year before. j

washington-based nonprofit organization that works on behalf of people displaced by conflicts, like those in rwanda and the balkans. he said in october, mr. glickman and the mpaa announced his plan to leave when his contract ended in september a spokesman for the association said they cannot provide a time table or details of the search for the next president, which is reviewing a broad range of candidates. mr. glickman, a former democratic congressman and agriculture secretary, took charge of the association, which represents major film studios, in 2004. and speaking on telephone only friday, he said he was proud to leave the film industry on issues related to glonal trade and the enforcement of digital rights, and to have protected by the vitality of a movie ratings system that it helps to oversee f. n case you're wondering who's going to be on tonight at 6:30, gordon smith, former senator from oregon, and he is the current head of the national association of broadcasters. we'll talk about issues relating to that industry. again, you can see it tonight on c-span at 6:30. chesterfield, missouri, o

growth, health, and good governance -- countries like south korea, thailand, mozambique, botswana, rwanda, and gone up. -- ghana. and we have supplied humanitarian aid to countries on every confidence in the wake of hurricanes, earthquakes, famines, floods, and other disasters. americans can and do take pride in these achievements which have not only helped humanity but also helped our nation project our values and strengthen our leadership in the world. these efforts have not been the work of government alone. most people do not realize that we contribute less than 1% of our budget to foreign assistance. the balance is made up by the generous spirit of americans and is reflected across our nation's landscape, from farms to civic groups to churches to charities. over the years, the american people have opened their hearts and their wallets to causes ranging from eradicating polio in latin america to saving the people of darfur, to helping people who are poor in asia purchase livestock, to investing in michael enterprise. this private giving exceeds the amount our government spends on fore

fatigue." ñrthere are always a new, attractive tragedy's coming down the road be they in darfur or rwandain. the haitians can never really planned -- plan on the funds that would be coming to them. that is one factor here. another factor is that the development model that is used in haiti so often is self- serving rather than men -- meant to aid the haitians. president clinton may have been concerned with u.s. national interests or his own personal, political interests, but this does not necessarily coincide with the haitian national interest. during the clinton era, eight was reduced to haiti because of the fact -- aid was reduced because aristide would ninth de- nationalize the cement company which was a source of great pride. they also owned the telephone service. washington told aristide to de- nationalize because we want open markets. he refused and aid was cut off. host: the last call now from our democratic line. caller: good morning. thank you for allowing me to speak to mr. birns. can you help me to understand who actually owned the land in haiti and that voters thought the land