and rwanda's women have been key players in the rebuilding process. >> in rwanda we have women in, not just in high positions, but also in areas that were traditionally reserved to men. so we've had police chief for many, many years. we have the supreme court justice who is a woman. we have women in various cabinet positions in the country. and what's mostly known throughout the world is the number of women in our parliament. now 56% of the members of parliament are women. so we've done quite well. >> rwanda leads in the world for female representation in government. by law at least 30% of parliamentary, cabinet, and local government positions must be filled by women. l progress has been noteworthy. rapes are now prosecuted as serious crimes, women are property-owners, and contraception is widely available. foreign minister louise mushikiwabo, one of eight women in rwanda's cabinet, says for the most part men have reacted positively to these changes. >> if i'm allowed to speak for men i think men in rwanda really should get credit for making space for women and for being comfortable wi

germany is to introduce tighter food safety controls. 17 years after the genocide in rwanda, a former mayor goes on trial in germany accused of ordering massacres. >> the old govnment of indosia is gon the new one might be on its way out as well. the prime minister has resigned from his duty in the ruling party. the powerful labor union says that its ministers, who resigned earlier in the day, but love be rejoining the government. the new cabinet contained too many of the ousted president's allies. [yelling] >> the revolution must continue he shouts to supporters after his arrival at the airport. after years in exile, the leader of the band congress for the republican party is back and running for president. the election is expected in march. >> this is a day of victory for me. i can feel free in my country. these men and women are free because they took part in the revolution. did is an incredible feeling to feel free in the country and the law to this incredible people. >> demonstrations continued in the streets. they rejected the government of national unity announced on monday bec

rwanda -- [applause] rwanda is a perfect indicator of what i'm saying. you can put aside religion and still have terrible things happen. this was the worst genocide since the holocaust, and yet it's true. there were members of the catholic church to behaved badly in that context in rue rwanda and there were others who stood up and protected and died alongside people in rwanda. in northern ireland, of course, that's right, but you couldn't ignore the politic of the situation in northern ireland with the relationship between britain going back many, many centuries. [applause] my point is very simple. of course religion has played a role and sometimes a very bad role in these situations, but not only religion here. what is at the heart of this is we wouldn't dream of condemning all of politics because politics led to hitler or stalin or indeed what has happened in rwanda. let us not condemn the whole religion or say that religion when you look at it as a whole is a force for bad because there are examples of where religion has had bad impact. my, i think, a

germany is to introduce tighter food safety controls. 17 years after the genocide in rwanda, a former mayor goes on trial in germany accused of ordering massacres. >> the old government of indonesia is gone. the new one might be on its way out as well. the prime minister has resigned from his duty in the ruling party. the powerful labor union says that its ministers, who resigned earlier in the day, but love be rejoining the government. the new cabinet contained too many of the ousted president's allies. [yelling] >> the revolution must continue he shouts to supporters after his arrival at the airport. after years in exile, the leader of the band congress for the republican party is back and running for president. the election is expected in march. >> this is a day of victory for me. i can feel free in my country. these men and women are free because they took part in the revolution. did is an incredible feeling to feel free in the country and the law to this incredible people. >> demonstrations continued in the streets. they rejected the government of national unity announced on mond

really implement anything when you look at the conflicts that they have not resolved congo sudan rwanda i mean if a country wants to do something they're going to do it talking about weapons and i look at north korea iran former iraq i mean the united nations has just literally just been a government bureaucracy full of the rapists you know the untold number of women that have been you know molested and raped by so-called you in peacekeepers is just a laughable joke they had someone could actually believe that the united nations has been able to keep conflict from happening what the u.n. has done a good job in is taking credit for what great leaders like ronald reagan and gorbachev have been able to come together own their own through their countries and through their leadership is to end the conflict and then united nations steps in this is oh look what we've done when in actuality i don't think any conflict that i know of that the united nations has ever been able to resolve and if anything conflicts that have existed or currently do exist like the sudan the united nations has not eve

the world knew about rwanda, but stood by as 800,000 died. the world knew about darfur, and didn't do enough. >> it's unlikely that this sort of satellite project is going to come up with the detailed photographs of actual atrocities that would really orchestrate international outrage. >> reporter: clooney and his team argue genocide occurs often because its hidden. >> these things have been happening in the dark for a long time. we're going to be able to not show it afterwards, but show it beforehand. >> reporter: and therefore prevent crimes against humanity and prevent the international community from once again turning a blind eye. nick schifrin, abc news, london. >>> and in alexandria, egypt, today, grieving christians attended sunday mass at a church that was targeted by an apparent suicide bombing yesterday. the bomb went much outside of the church at the start of a new year's day service. you can actually see it in that video there. 29 people died in what is just the latest in a series of increasingly violent attacks against christian

move forward in brotherhood with arabs and muslims, who look back on history in south africa for rwanda and move forward and say what can we do looking at our honest history? >> you also alluded to arabs who protected -- [talking over each other] >> depending on the decade and a century and territory, have alternately massacred the jews or elevated them to eat nobility. i tried to give the nuances of that in the book. there is a huge legacy of neighborliness between jews and arabs but also had to get the context. black people in this country rose, became great sports stars and jazz guys, but within the context of the civil-rights movement, within the context of being suppressed and subjected to the cool jim-crow laws and things of that nature. blacks earned plenty of money but had to fight three times as hard to get there. there were good relations, i am happy to emphasize the good relations. even in the far -- the book makes this clear many times a jewish family was saved by an arab. the reason the extermination did not go through is thousands of arabs in mesopotamia murdered hundreds

rwanda and bosnia had trouble. quarter of the population was displaced. hundreds of the. s destroyed, totally blown up. sheep and livestock were destroyed. this was continuing into summer of 2007. i visited several villages a few weeks ago that were totally destroyed seven months after the surge began. until the cease-fire, you had a successful separation of citys and shi'ites. no longer a mixed areas. the social fabric was destroyed possibly forever. a few iraqis were displaced within the country. hundred of thousands of refugees outside of iraq, the iraqis were dying. the militia succeeded and she has had won and beginning to realize they have won. crucially the third factor in the violence was the rise of prime minister malady who came to power and seemed to be an american puppet. he had to flex his muscles and take his role more seriously. he realized al qaeda was taken care of by americans but i have this competition for power. they were unruly or clashing with my own security forces. and he turned on them. in march of 2008 he declared -- readily he targeted shia nei

look back on history as they have in south africa, as they have with yugoslavia, as they have with rwanda. and move forward and say, now what can we do here looking at our honest history? so use the president's. [inaudible] >> arab regimes, depending upon the decade, depending upon the center, depending upon the territory have alternately massacred the jews were elevated them to delete no villains. and i tried to get the nuances of that in the book. there's a huge legacy of neighborliness between jews and arabs, but i also had to give the context. enemy, you know we can say about black people in this country. that black people in this country, they rose, they became a great sports stars, great jazz guys, but they became great jazz guys at great sports guys within the context of the civil rights movement, within the context of being suppressed and being subjected to jim crow laws and things of that nature. so yes, whether black supply of money? sure. adapted by three times as hard to get there? yes, they did. they were good relations. i'm happy to emphasize the good relations -- [inaudible

not singling out japanese but things that are going on in africa today are as bad or is worse in rwanda and so on. maam? >> is a turned on? >> how do i know? what was it like to be a comanche woman? via comanche woman? this was one of the things i tried to do when talking about cynthia ann. they did all the work. they had -- they didn't have much status but they did all the work and it was astonishing what they did do. they also fought, but you know, the process of tanning buffalo heights was brutal work and they did this all day long. they were the ones, these were nomadic tribes that moved all the time. they there were the ones entirely charge of the logistics of doing the moves and the men, hugh hans, you fight them there was nothing else. the women did absolutely everything so there was kind of a brutal life i guess for a woman without the freedom the men had you now and i think cynthia ann live that life. when she came back she sort of voted with their feet and kept trying to escape. as hard is that they have been it was still her world. it was hard work for women, very hard. over

the world knew about rwanda but stood by as 800,000 died. the world knew about darfur and didn't do enough. >> it's unlikely that this sort of satellite project is going to come up with the detailed photographs of actual atrocities that would really orchestrate international outrage. >> reporter: clooney and his team argue genocide often occurs because it's hidden. >> these things have been happening in the dark for a long time. we're going to be able to show it not afterwards but show it beforehand. >> reporter: and therefore prevent crimes against humanity and prevent the international community from once again turning a blind eye. nick schifrin, abc news, london. >>> in sports news this morning, future hall of fame quarterback brett favre says he is done with football again. favre didn't even suit up for what turned out to be the vikings' season-ending loss to the lions yesterday. he says the lingering effects of a concussion helped him reach the decision to hang up those cleats for good. of course skeptics point out favre has retired twi

i mean, i'd spent a lot of time overseas, i'd been in the genocide in rwanda and places where terriblening. but to be in a position where you're ahead of relief workers, ahead of the response, talk to politicians in charge of this stuff saying things which are not true, that was the first time i felt, you know what? i'm in exactly the right place at exactly the right time. probably the only other time i felt that was in haiti. this is downtown port-au-prince, just a few blocks from the presidential palace. being sort of the first team on the ground and really seeing things and seeing things not going right and call them out and try to get them to change. >> how much pressure do you feel to keep it honest yourself? >> how do you mean? >> you must be almost saint-like now, because you can't be dishonest at all. all of us lie at least ten times a day. you can't. you can't even get into a restaurant saying anything wrong. have you to be completely honest. >> i've just stopped talking to people altogether so i don't have to say anything one way or another. but i do feel a responsibility to

the diyala province is a sight of some of the worst atrocities of the civil war, rwanda, bosnia. a court of the population was displaced. hundreds of villages were destroyed, totally blown out. all of the sheep and livestock, the equipment destroyed come and this was continuing into the summer of 2007. i visited several villages just a few weeks ago that for all destroyed seven months after the search began. so the violence didn't really decline until the army cease-fire and you have this separation of the sunni and shia in iraq. the iraqi social fabric was destroyed possibly forever. you have a couple million iraqis displaced within the country, hundreds of thousands of refugees outside of iraq. so in the sense they were dying in part of because the iraqis killed. the militia succeeded and the had one and they were beginning to realize they have one. and crucially, the third factor was the rise of penn mr. maliki. mulkey came to power as an american puppet and his main backers. they had to be at the flexes his muscles and take the role more seriously. he realized okay i will try

they were proven a couple years later by the rwanda tribunal in tanzania. they have been proven just a daily now in the cambodia tribunal, which is finishing its second trial now in cambodia. so we are learning quite a bit about it. one of the scary lessons is if we don't have it free press, the government can unleash the worst of humankind. and that will lead us down this terrible road. >> i have to look down at it. i think conflict per se is a natural part of any human society because different people have different interests. so we'll always be in conflict with one another. the question is really why people choose to resolve conflicts with force but as an individual level that is fairly explicable. if you can't eat any other way it's an easy way to do. collectively though it's hard to explain because collectively it rarely makes sense. it could cost benefit analysis. very, very few wars make profit, collectively. even if you achieved your collective goals you normally do so at a price which is not worth it. and very often you don't have a collective go a

note that media can be used destructively to encite violence as we saw tragically in the 1990 in rwanda and we continue to have concerns regarding state-controlled media, particularly in the middle east that continued to ferment religious tension across the region. >> now no one is a great are advocate for a vibrant, independent and responsible press, committed to the freedom of expression and the development of a true, global, civil society than the united states. every day we express concern about the flight of the -- the plight of journalists and now bloggers around the world who are intimidated, jailed and tragically in some cases killed by governments that are afraid of their people and afraid of the empowerment that comes with the free flow of information within a free flowing saasity. most recently we did so in the context of this week tunisia which has hacked social media accounts while claims to protect their citizens from the encitement of violence. in doing so we feel the government is restricting the epitome of its peaceful to peacefully assemble and express their views in o

note that media can be used destructively to encite violence as we saw tragically in the 1990 in rwanda and we continue to have concerns regarding state-controlled media, particularly in the middle east that continued to ferment religious tension across the region. >> now no one is a great are advocate for a vibrant, independent and responsible press, committed to the freedom of expression and the development of a true, global, civil society than the united states. every day we express concern about the flight of the -- the plight of journalists and now bloggers around the world who are intimidated, jailed and tragically in some cases killed by governments that are afraid of their people and afraid of the empowerment that comes with the free flow of information within a free flowing saasity. most recently we did so in the context of this week tunisia which has hacked social media accounts while claims to protect their citizens from the encitement of violence. in doing so we feel the government is restricting the epitome of its peaceful to peacefully assemble and express their views in o

a new deal to share the nile waters was sound by ethiopia, kenya, uganda, rwanda, and tanzania, in giving the other nile basin countries one year to sign on. some have promised to sign the pact, but others have rejected it. with egypt, their self-described gift of the nile, calling it a national security issue, challenging their sacred control of the nile. however, each of refusal to negotiate new terms is not sustainable. besides ethiopia's massive energy skiing, -- energy scheme, they are building more power plants. as the prime minister says, the egyptians have yet to make up their minds as to whether they want to live in the 21st or the 19th century. a political struggle over oil and water in the region could also result in a new wave of proxy warfare. a good example of this type of proxy conflict can be found in the resistance army, eight wild weill group, the survival for decades was solely based on sudanese support as a proxy against uganda and retaliation for the uganda support for the south. the renewed conflict would undoubtedly see shartoum -- khartoum involved. al qaeda would

we have seen in the last 20 years the proliferation of a tribunal -- the cambodia it tribunal, the rwanda tribunal. the idea is that the -- that they create a permanent record. if we do not remember the lessons of the past and the mistakes of the past, we will continue to be making those mistakes in the future. that is a terrible paraphrase, but you get the idea. they avoid collective guilt so that you do not have, for example -- a nazi germany rose up because of a punishment instituted on and germany after world war ii and. -- world war i. there is evidence of growing that there is a reasonable likelihood that people will be prosecuted for these kindsf crime. there is a deterrent. famously, adolf hitler set in 1939 on the eve of the invasion of poland, "we are not sure we want to do that. we are afraid we will be held accountable." look get world war i. nobody has ever been held accountable for that. "due to remembers the fate of the armenians?" those days are gone. we are in an era where you see inseminate kinds of trials and discussion of criminal liability, you are seeing it in televi

we have seen in the last 20 years the proliferation of a tribunal -- the cambodia it tribunal, the rwanda tribunal. the idea is that the -- that they create a permanent record. if we do not remember the lessons of the past and the mistakes of the past, we will continue to be making those mistakes in the future. that is a terrible paraphrase, but you get the idea. they avoid collective guilt so that you do not have, for example -- a nazi germany rose up because of a punishment instituted on and germany after world war ii and. -- world war i. there is evidence of growing that there is a reasonable likelihood that people will be prosecuted for these kinds of crime. there is a deterrent. famously, adolf hitler set in 1939 on the eve of the invasion of poland, "we are not sure we want to do that. we are afraid we will be held accountable." look get world war i. nobody has ever been held accountable for that. "due to remembers the fate of the armenians?" those days are gone. we are in an era where you see inseminate kinds of trials and discussion of criminal liability, you are seeing it in tele

the world was watching genocide rwanda and darfur. the world is watching isn't enough.we owe the people and the freedom that we stand for much more. what is necessary is to make clear in word and deed that we can offer more than condolences when things go wrong to people willing to put their lives on the line for freedom. we must offer support and treatment and we must make it clear in the word and deed to the iranian regime that we stand with those who stand for freedom and demand regme ang eectiveayo do tat wod be enterthe upcin negoatns with ranhavg kem he ltf t foei trostnitis icud sh that we will not use mek and we will not let anybody else use mek as a bargaining chip. it has been said that it's not a favor to the organizations like mek to advocate for them because they can then be accused by the regime of acting as tools of the united states. there are two answers to that. the first is that whoever opposes the regime is going to be attacked as a tool of the united states regardless whether or not they receive assistance so they might as well get the help. second,

despaired over the international community's failure back in the 1990s on tragies such as somalia, rwanda and bosnia and even at that time sudan as well. and we are quite well known for the reports that we publish. it wavers between 80 and 90 reports that we do, and i even in the sudan program, the sudan team if they we given a lot of leeway, they could write 80 reports in the space of three months in sudan because of the nature of the situation there. we also produce what we call the crisatch bulletin which provides a monthly snapshot of what we consider to be the conflict alert countries at that moment in the month. we have several vocacy offices, and most of you may know our washington office. we also have an office in brus ls and in new york as well, and the headquarrs for the africa program is strategically located in nairobi which is a critical hufor us. and as richard has already said, as the africa directer, we operate in 20 different countries across the continent. before i joined icg, i was also working for the united nations in liberia as well. specifically on sudan, my colleag

itself in a way that shocked many people, and america oddly enough shock itself that we didn't have a rwandact. we have a dialogue of civilization, not a clash of civilizations. out of that this course there are some challenges that we have come and that is the challenge to the medieval narrative. we wouldn't have touched the women's rights if it were not for the fact that after 9/11 the korean was sold out. to get to chapter 4, hey, what about this. now you've got millions of americans in the universities and other places asking questions, and it is at that point that it challenges our traditional thinking and also, we have to recognize in america of the importance of popular culture. if islam isn't going to happen on popular culture is it's not going to make it in the future. i know we have an x rapper with a feature comedian here. [laughter] once we make that engagement, and it is already happening in different ways but we have to promote eight. when you say there are people now who if you tell them my son is going to be a playwright like ought but what they're doing in the play is edify

rather than just think that's not possible and, you know, i just can't contemplate that we would allow rwanda to happen again and would be a shame from what we've done in the afghanistan because we took a long time to get the formula right, i think we are now pleading catch-up but at the tactical level the real issue is repeatedly can the non-military dimensions of what we are doing their now match with the military is starting to do. things like governments, justice, creating an afghan government is an extremely important part of that and i think abstract is now back there alongside president karzai and clear lockhart who knows more about this is sitting over there. [inaudible] and i didn't know that. on would say things aren't quite as easy one might think that in the case of both afghanistan and pakistan we've got horrendous problems and we need to empathize a bit. it's too easy to criticize. i was a rather cheeky at a point in the press conference when i was there a few weeks ago when i was asked about this and i made this point of view of president karzai trying to balance the pressure w

despaired over the international community's failure back in the 1990s on tragedies such as somalia, rwanda and bosnia and even at that time sudan as well. and we are quite well known for the reports that we publish. it wavers between 80 and 90 reports that we do, and i even in the sudan program, the sudan team if they were given a lot of leeway, they could write 80 reports in the space of three months in sudan because of the nature of the situation there. we also produce what we call the crisis watch bulletin which provides a monthly snapshot of what we consider to be the conflict alert countries at that moment in the month. we have several advocacy offices, and most of you may know our washington office. we also have an office in brus ls and in new york as well, and the headquarters for the africa program is strategically located in nairobi which is a critical hub for us. and as richard has already said, as the africa directer, we operate in 20 different countries across the continent. before i joined icg, i was also working for the united nations in liberia as well. specifically on sudan

bill clinton said in his hands and did not go to rwanda fast enough when the genocides were going on. what does rap have to do with that? is all for standards, but they should apply to presidents as well as rappersz, members of congress, media tie-ins, etc. host: next question. >> goes live from miami dade honors college. having interviewed so many great leaders in their respective fields, i would like you to reflect on your most memorable interview. guest: very good question. the two persons i have talked to that have enamored me the most, for two different reasons, there's only one in nelson mandela. sitting down to talk to nelson mandela in a private conversation is the end all, be all. that is about as good as it gets. but i also spent one night, about six hours, talking to fidel castro in cuba. funny story, because i had gone down there for about seven days, doing research and some work. i had a request in to interview president castro, and every day went by and no call. second day, no call. third day, no call. fourth day, no copy of the last night i am there at 1:00 in the morni

rather than just think that's not possible and, you know, i just can't contemplate that we would allow rwanda to happen again and would be a shame from what we've done in the afghanistan because we took a long time to get the formula right, i think we are now pleading catch-up but at the tactical level the real issue is repeatedly can the non-military dimensions of what we are doing their now match with the military is starting to do. things like governments, justice, creating an afghan government is an extremely important part of that and i think abstract is now back there alongside president karzai and clear lockhart who knows more about this is sitting over there. [inaudible] and i didn't know that. on would say things aren't quite as easy one might think that in the case of both afghanistan and pakistan we've got horrendous problems and we need to empathize a bit. it's too easy to criticize. i was a rather cheeky at a point in the press conference when i was there a few weeks ago when i was asked about this and i made this point of view of president karzai trying to balance the pressure w

despaired over the international community's failure back in the 1990s on tragedies such as somalia, rwanda and bosnia and even at that time sudan as well. and we are quite well known for the reports that we publish. it wavers between 80 and 90 reports that we do, and i even in the sudan program, the sudan team if they were given a lot of leeway, they could write 80 reports in the space of three months in sudan because of the nature of the situation there. we also produce what we call the crisis watch bulletin which provides a monthly snapshot of what we consider to be the conflict alert countries at that moment in the month. we have several advocacy offices, and most of you may know our washington office. we also have an office in brus ls and in new york as well, and the headquarters for the africa program is strategically located in nairobi which is a critical hub for us. and as richard has already said, as the africa directer, we operate in 20 different countries across the continent. before i joined icg, i was also working for the united nations in liberia as well. specifically on sudan

the world was watching genocide rwanda and darfur. the world is watching isn't enough. we owe the people and the freedom that we stand for much more. what is necessary is to make clear in word and deed that we can offer more than condolens when things go wrong to people willing to put their lives on the line for freedom. we must offer support and treatment and we must make it clear in the word and deed to the iranian regime that we stand with those who stand for freedom and demand regime change. effective way to do that would be to enter the upcoming negotiations with iran having taken mek of the list of the foreign terrorist organizations which would show that we recognize mek as a group devoted to restoring freedom to iran and that we will not use mek and we will not let anybody else use mek as a bargaining chip. it has been said that it's not a favor to the organizations like mek to advocate for them because they can then be accused by the regime of acting as tools of the united states. there are two answers to that. the first is that whoever opposes the regime is go

the world was watching genocide rwanda and darfur. the world is watching isn't enough.more. what is necessary is to make clear in word and deed that we can offer more than condolences when things go wrong to people willing to put their lives on the line for freedom. we must offer support and treatment and we must make it clear in the word and deed to the iranian regime that we stand with those who stand for freedom and demand regime change. an effective way to do that would be to enter the upcoming negotiations with iran having taken mek of the list of the foreign terrorist organizations which would show that we recognize mek as a group devoted to restoring freedom to iran and that we will not use mek and we will not let anybody else use mek as a bargaining chip. it has been said that it's not a favor to the organizations like mek to advocate for them because they can then be accused by the regime of acting as tools of the united states. there are two answers to that. the first is that whoever opposes the regime is going to be attacked as a tool of the united states reg

despaired over the international community's failure back in the 1990's on tragedies like somalia, rwanda, and bosnia, and even then sudan as well. we're known for the report we published. there are between 80 and 90 reports that we do. the sudan team could write a report within three months if given the leeway because of the nature of the situation there. we also produce a crisis what bulletin that provides a monthly snapshot of what we consider to be the conflict alert countries at that moment. we have several advocacy offices. we have the washington office. we also have the office in brussels. the headquarters for the africa program is a strategically located in nairobi. as the africa director, we operate in 20 different countries across the continent. before i joined icg, and was also at the united nations mission in liberia as well. my colleague will go into deeper details on sudan. i want to acknowledge that this is a momentous moment in the history of the continent. when you are looking for key moments and dates on the continent, when a reference 1957. ghana was the first independe

the adoption resolution condemning the resolution of darfur with the 10th anniversary of jencide in rwandaelcome, and i know your book is here floating aut, a omar ishmael. you are much loved in stopping jencide andass atrocities. you were born in darfur, but forced to flee sudan in 1989. thanks, gentlemen, both for being here. i'll gavel you down so we can gent to questions an answe. >> tha you very much, madam chairperson, and congratulations on that. good to seeanking memr berm aga,nd he t note don payne spent more time on this and we're all in his debt, and as congressman smith said, we've all worked together in the past. it's good to be here again. start with the fact there's been marginalization for 200 years resulting in discrimination economically, educationally, health, politically, and in justice. that permeates the country creating unstability, and the south is only a small part of the story. second, we have to recognize that unfortunately in sudan, it's too common that the political leaders feel comfortable resorting to violence as aegimeay rsir pal jeiv denge in atrocities, an

the world was watching genocide rwanda and darfur. the world is watching isn't enough.go wrong to people willing to put their lives on the line for freedom. we must offer support and treatment and we must make it clear in the word and deed to the iranian regime that we stand with those who stand for freedom and demand regime change. an effective way to do that would be to enter the upcoming negotiations with iran having taken mek of the list of the foreign terrorist organizations which would show that we recognize mek as a group devoted to restoring freedom to iran and that we will not use mek and we will not let anybody else use mek as a bargaining chip. it has been said that it's not a favor to the organizations like mek to advocate for them because they can then be accused by the regime of acting as tools of the united states. there are two answers to that. the first is that whoever opposes the regime is going to be attacked as a tool of the united states regardless whether or not they receive assistance so they might as well get the help. second, we ought to let org

they were proven a couple of years later by the rwanda tribunal, and proven in cambodia trial. worse in humankind. that will lead us down the terrible road. >> if i jump in at that point. i have to look down a bit. i think it's a bit low. i mean conflict, per se, is a natural part of any human society. because different people have different interests, so we'll always be in conflict with one another. the question really is why people choose to resolve conflicts with force. and at an individual level, that's fairly explicable. collectively, it's harder to explain. because collectively, it rarely makes sense from the cost-benefit analysis. very, very few wars make profit collect iively. i mean even if you achieve your collective goal, you normally do so at a price which is not worth it. and very often, you don't have a collective goal anyway when you start the war. the ends are not very clear. so from a purely sort of collective rationality perspective, it doesn't make sense as a human activity. but it can make sense for certain individuals or groups. so we're collectively it's n