"outfront" tonight, president saakashvili is there. he has been working with opposition leaders there. great to see you, mr. president. we appreciate you taking the time. it's good to talk to you. >> nice to be back on your show. >> you know vladimir putin so well. he denies issuing an ultimatum to ukraine. you heard ben wedeman say, not a shot has been fired. you told me on friday, you thought this could be a hot war. >> well, i just had a long conversation with the head of ukraine's security service, and he, indeed, did confirm there were multiple ultimatums coming from russia and he confirmed that russia is comparing for some kind of attack on ukraine and navy, that is surrounded in crimea, and certainly, the longer it lasts, the bigger it will get. back in 2008, it's true that hundreds of people, some people would argue, from both sides, when you also see russian casualties, thousands of people were killed as a result of that invasion of my country. half a million of georgia's and we see all the same risk in crimea. we have crimean

it's great of you to join us, former georgian president mikheil saakashvili. here again are nina khruscheva, professor of international affairs at the new school and member of the council on the former relation, and an author of the book "the lost khrushcev: a journey into the gulag of the russian mind," coming out later this year. and professor alexander motyl. a professor of political scientist at rutgers university, and a specialist at ukraine. i saw you nodding with the president when he talked about ukraine being too big. will it settle for crimea, and not try to put troops into the eastern part of ukraine, where there are a lot of russians. >> he may put troops into either parts of ukraine, but i think that he will settle for crimea. it is somewhat his grandiose russian delusional goal to bring crimea back, the jewel of the soviet empire, to bring it back under the russian control from ukraine. i agree with the georgian president. that he may settle for that. >> do you agree that the west has leverage that it can really apply, and force putin to behave?

pleasure. >> thank you, charlie. >> charlie: we turn now to mikheil saakashvili. he joins us from kiev via skype. he served, as you know, as the president of georgia from 2004 until 2013. many have compared russia's military intervention in ukraine to russia's invasion of georgia in 2008. i am pleased to have him back on this program from kiev. welcome. >> thank you. it's nice to be back to your show, charlie. >> charlie: tell me what you think the russians are up to and how far they will go. >> i think the russians definitely wants to grab crimea for good for a number of reasons. he wants to extend his own political existence inside russia, he wants to feel like a strong man on soviet space as well as all over europe. but also there's one big secret in crimea, almost 100 percent of shell gas is in europe. it means russia would lose its biggest customer in europe and europe would get major alternative source of energy. by grabbing crimea, putin basically killed the whole idea of energy in ukraine but also for energy to europe. not many people talk about it but tha

i'm back now with the former president of the republic of georgia, mikheli saakashvili along with mikeic layton. president saakashvili, president putin, according to officials here in the united states, controls the crimea peninsula now tonight. what will the ukraine do about it? you've been in kiev all week. you've been with opposition leaders. are they able to fight back? >> ukraine is a very, very peaceful country and these people were really trying to put the whole thing together. they really reached out to russian speakers in ukraine and east of ukraine mostly clintojo these protests so there was no pretext for russia to do that. the whole thing is that they were trying to sell this story and by the way, i mentioned one has to remember that part of germany came in to protect and suffered because they had to leave the territory because there was ethnic cleansing. so russia using brutal force, they claim to be provoked but this claim is not valid. now, ukrainians, i think they were starting to bring in a new interim government. the whole thing was very going very peaceful. i met wit

him on his own actions six years ago you know where things stand in their position with mikhail saakashvili who launched a full blown attack on the republic of south pacific killing scores of innocent people and international investigations confirmed that he needed before rushing into being that man is allowed to sit there on a challenge and more lies about russia's actions now here are my questions questions that i would very much like to hear in the mainstream media and i don't mean there's probably a reason for that too. the eu association agreement that spark might die. aside from the fact that it offered disastrous terms for the ukrainian economy. why did it have to force ukraine to decide between russia and the eq. why did you reject washes all four of the tripartite the three wave of arrangement that would allow ukraine to sustain ties with the book sure why that's a cool free trade agreement have concluded closet of millet reintegration. knowing how divided the country is why the west need to pick the people of ukraine against each other like that. in washington on street parking th

three ep the affiliated parties now forming the ante on a covert government in kiev meat aisle saakashvili another delegates was president of georgia when russia invaded that country but no cooking these will be as arrogant as european seventy two tv. he's still the votes. we can beat this month he should be good to have bit cynical but a bit seasick recipient is not too thick or so that might lead one to one it's like a peek at the portal will get new units now a new book back door deals. both small and peter nash nation to prison largest country in europe and is being sliced up as we speak. veteran opposition figures you get tymoshenko i'm not in their klitschko were given a hero's welcome by irish ukrainians gathered outside the convention center but mr klitschko was called a fascist by some irish left wing protesters who don't like the dpp and its leading politicians. social support and there you go to sch and told the former ukrainian prime minister's address to the congress of the moment a short time ago. she spoke to prime time is miriam o'callaghan who asked about the divisions in

it's a different sequence of the winds that are at least russia was able to portray it at that saakashvili balls which means the georgians were actually attacking and then there was this sort of defense and then. and then these these territories were occupied at least that was the typical picture of that that the world except that their parents but here i think the picture is of them know of no real threats. and there's no real defense. it's just annexation. i don't think there will be. that will be a center back chris and inspired by the west and the rest will just forget about crimea. i think it'll go on how it will go on let them know. centralized this award associate professor of chemical academic in our studios to cut my hair out for your odds of that soul now oil is that it is this pre show and as a punter and in some couple days you will see a congenial far as inspirational as the us or them. fifth grade to regionals the frequency is always a will stay with us i am. it was still cool. this is what hospital. official port of antwerp security you'll want to speak race that isn't what

prosecutor's office as soon as next week will face an international rest one one one the how of saakashvili has found himself on the wrong side of the mold via our website. as a way of the havoc of this money is spent in libraries and led to roles with nothing to show for it. the british government gives a depressing full cost of debt laden students can find out more on the website right now. what i wear heels of crimea breaking away from ukraine the italian city of venice and the surrounding provinces now but if its independence from rome. an overwhelming eighteen nine percent of the nation's budget the killing of eleven in a referendum in the region could now start withholding taxes from the italian government. a local professor apollo bottom of the nice but my colleague bill dog. and ultimately from down the reasoning for the historic me. but he says not only in the monday of cost land ruled by the time is too sharp. we chose for him is he's won six of the sand and seventy cents is the one who still has the scope of a singaporean and by creating a new regional traditions they wouldn't us

mikheil saakashvili. georgia and russia were locked in a crisis of their own in 2008.e told us that this conflict is very much like the other. >> i remember american companies were there. ukraine was coming to me saying that there was an order of gas. once it had happened, russia had lost the biggest buyer of their gas in europe. it is like a rack and kuwait. the energy plan for europe was huge. >> i think that even he would have trouble pronouncing his name. thoughts on vladimir putin? >> this guy is dangerous. the reality is that this is going to continue. these tactics are very simple. grab the territory, lay down somewhere else, another crisis moves somewhere, everyone forgets it. like in george's case. it might signify something fast for putin's adventures, it depends. it is all about whether it is too messy or if it is subtitled for the less control. >> ukraine said, back when the government took over, that they needed $35 billion to avoid default. the u.s. pledged $1 billion in loan guarantees. the european union appears to be pledging $15 billion in loans. 16 d

. ♪ >> we turn now to mikheil saakashvili. he joins us from kiev, on skype.e was the previous president of georgia. many have compared his current invasion to the invasion of georgia in 2008. i am pleased to have him here on this program from kiev. tell me what you think the russians are up to and how far they will go. >> putin wants to grab the crimea for good. he wants to advance his political agenda. he wants to feel like a strongman all over europe. there is one basic reading crimea. there's shale gas. crimea has almost 100% of ukraine's shale gas reserves. ukraine would be a big exporter of shale gas. that would mean that russia would lose its biggest customers in europe. europe would get a major alternative source of energy. putin basically killed the whole idea of energy independence for ukraine. not many people talk about this. there are american companies that have interest in the shale gas. it is really a big political gamble. for the rest of ukraine, there is long-term destabilization. >> what does the west have to do to stop this. >> there are lot

continuing our conversation with georgia's former president saakashvili. we're happy to have you here. i want to ask you quickly, you've said in a recent editorial that mr. putin's motivations are similar to those of pre-war germany. he wants to rectify what he sees as the unjust treatment and humiliation by western powers after the cold war. can you tell me why you feel this way? >> well, i mean, it's very similar, a carbon copy of what happened in czechoslovakia when germany was starting. also in europe. basically they claimed they had -- they went so-called to protect them, but then european power, chamberlain, british prime minister back then said, well, czechoslovakia is far away, we shouldn't care about the quarrels between the people of whom we know so little. other places all over europe. appeasers. feed one country, a crocodile, hoping they'd be beat by the crocodile. it looks like putin is on a rampage. putin, it's about liberty. you know, you ukrainians are fighting to be part of the western world. justice for revolution. crackdown from the gove

now, mikheil saakashvili is in the kiev helping the new ukrainian government deal with this latest threat. i should tell you, want to remind you all that we are dealing with a significant sound delay here, so my apology to those of you trying to keep up at home and to the president. mr. president, very good to have you. i want to talk about what you tell those ukrainians you meet, how do you guide them? >> very good to be back to your show. well, i certainly advise them to exercise maximum degree of self-restraint but also to get ready for the worst because vladimir putin certainly is going to -- not going to stop. he has planned for full grak b crimea and he needs to expel the military bases there, the ukrainian military base they were confronting much more -- exceeding russian force but they still were very brave to trying to defend their own country. but so far it has not been -- you know, it's not been a shootout but it was very close to that. so, it's a very precarious situation. one thing should be remembered that russia has very clear plan to stay in crimea because beyond everythin

his own actions six years ago you know where they stand in their position toward russia mikhail saakashvili who launched a full blown attack on the republic of south the safety or killing scores of innocent people and the international investigations confirmed that he did it before rushing into the ain't that man is allowed to sit there unchallenged and moralize about russia's actions. now here are my questions questions that i would very much like to hear in the mainstream media and i don't there's probably a reason for that to the e.u. association agreement that sparked my down aside from the fact that it offered disastrous terms for the u. . economy why did it have to force ukraine to decide between russia and the e.u. why did the e.u. reject russia's off for over tripartite three way arrangement that would allow ukraine to sustain ties with russia why did that suppose we trade agreement have to include a clause about military integration knowing how divided the country is why did the west need to pit the people of ukraine against each other like that. in washington i'm going to check ou

saakashvili correct but not only -- vladimirudent putin dangerous, but he can grab other parts of ukraineercussions whatsoever? >> i know the ex-president pretty well. he visited us quite recently. in mulled over, moldova -- moldova, we need to be careful about what we say and what we do. andkey is to keep stability stability. we are worried. [no audio] we expressed our strong solidarity you through -- with ukraine. we hope very much, we face a lot of obstacles we hope a lot happen in ukraine. vladimir putin recently in sochi. what did you talk about and did he make any mention of ukraine? >> no. it was the occasion of sport activities. we exchanged a few words on the importance of the olympic games in sochi. no. it to happenect and i don't know if many people expected it to happen. say you are very worried. you describe a situation as being dangerous and potentially contagious yet at the same time you say you need to watch your words carefully. why? what are you afraid of? >> we have a responsibility. a difficult, sometimes complex relationship with russia. russia is an important politic

his prosecutor's office as soon as next week or the international iraq war and learn why we hold saakashvilias found himself on the wrong side of the law on our website. and also that he gets banned in libraries and lecture halls was nothing to show for it the british government gives a depressing forecast for debt laden students head to our dot com to find out why. the so. we're strong. and i think you're. going to. be. hot on the heels of crimea breaking away from ukraine that it's holland city of bet it is has voted for independence from rome and overwhelming eighty nine percent of the nation's voted for growing its alone in a referendum and the city could now start withholding taxes from the italian government local professor paolo dinis spoke to my colleague bill dog and broke down the reasoning for the historic move. banning says pretty much as benetton the . triangle. is sure. is well above sixty. seventy percent so is the one of the strongest fiscal pressure assume the warranty and by creating a new lease on the fish and stayed we would use the fiscal black on the citizens there's al

he told former georgian president saakashvili that is what he wanted.roblem we have a nato allies, we have treaty, if you're attacked, with armed aggression against you we cram bell our jets with military assistance that. is the thing to watch that could come as early as next month or two. martha: what happens now? you've seen this mobilization of troops along the eastern ukraine. >> yeah. martha: the president is at the hague. what's next? >> i guess he is filling out his brackets but there is a problem, what the president should do this week. he is in europe meeting with all the heads of europe. he should at end of this we'll have american-european energy summit. i pledge, america, will help you europe become energy independent from russia. we'll do it within 10 years. we'll do it probably within five years. here are the steps i'm going to take, my country is going to take, our country will take, so you can get on the blackmail russia is putting on you. then we can do a lot together. right now we have very limited options. throwing a bunch of sanction

ukraine ok eric just as a point of order and there is no there's been no invasion of crimea and mr saakashvili started the war in two thousand a professor you may disagree with me but that's a historical fact erick what drives all of this here because. of which offers promise that nato witney expand so is this really what it's all about is now nato expansion. absolutely nato expansion is really at the center of this entire geo political conflict and we should remember also that with the end of the soviet union not only was there an agreement upon the idea that nato would not be expanding eastward but it was understood among the most principled individuals within international relations circles that nato expansion was not only unnecessary but that it would be dangerous and yet in the recent in the recent past the last twenty years we have seen nothing but nato expansion the absorption of the baltic states the creation of a nato colony in kosovo the absorbtion of georgia and other former soviet republics all of this has been an eastward expansion of nato and that really lies at the heart of the

backed neo liberal neo conservative saakashvili regimes attempt to annex south a city which killed several russian un approved peacekeepers in the process. but the west didn't learn their lesson the first time and continued to encroach on red lines in the post soviet space for russia with this attempt at a successful attempt at a putsch however i don't see as much of the differences some of our other guests between us and european responses to this crisis the u.s. sanctions that they have leveled themselves are fairly toothless and obama has made it clear that there will be no military intervention in the ukraine he might have been hoping for something a little bit more robust out of europe but everyone knows with russia as germany's largest state trading partner that any attempts to put sanctions on russia would rebound even worse on germany and the entire european union a condom me. which is you know just barely treading water at this point would go down so i don't think that there's that much leverage for either the americans or for the europeans and i don't see the as much of a differe

prosecutor's office as soon as next week all safe and international arrest warrant learn why me hail saakashvilis found himself on the wrong side of the law on our website. and also that i get spent in libraries and lecture halls with nothing to show for it the british government gives a depressing forecast for debt laden students had to r.t. dot com to find out more. were struck. and i think you're. going to. be. hot on the heels of crimea breaking away from ukraine the italian city of venice has voted for independence from rome an overwhelming case in nine percent of the nations voted for going it alone in a referendum and the city could now start with holding taxes from the italian government local professor power law that my dinis spoke to my colleague bill dog and broke down the reasoning for the historic move. things as pretty much as. i sure. is well above sixty per cent and seventy percent was the one of the strongest the skull fractures in the war and by creating a new lease on the mission stated we would use the fiscal blusher all the citizens this was all comes at a very interesting t

backed neo liberal neo conservative saakashvili regime in georgia tempted by force to annex south and in the process killing un approved russian peacekeepers which caused russia to react back restoring the provinces and the breakaway provinces and then recognizing them as independent states that is the first indication and quite clearly russia's. red lines were crossed at the time and the west didn't learn its lessons and once again they went into the ukraine attempting once again to flip the government as they did earlier with the orange revolution this time with the addition of several thousand nationalist paramilitary and politicians making it in even more odious event so we have seen the formulation of a new world order putin in his speech today personally thanked china and india for their constructive stances on this with china abstaining in the security council and on india making statements recognizing russia's legitimate interest in the crimea we have seen a clear indication that russia has had it up to here with the west that they are entire focus of russian economic and fore

the primary instigation for the conflict came from the liberal saakashvili regime in an attempt to. the west during commentary and media continues to try to present a completely different vision of that so certainly. i think that we'll see the same repeated with what is happening but. you can characterize it as the east against the west. any chance of a military response from any. any european country is very unlikely we're not going to see a war unfold here between nations are we we might see tensions between ukraine and russia but not why didn't that ok well there are at least two different ukraine at this point and one of them doesn't the one sitting in. not much legitimacy i would say. may not have. a significant control over the ukrainian military forces to present much of a conflict with russia right but yes i agree that the west at this point it would seem unlikely that they would militarily interfere with the stabilization operation nobody's talking about at the moment because he doesn't have a lot of support in crimea is there any way that he could back on the scene there o