used as a safehaven. would markets continue to think of us that way? we don't know. the second choice is more scary to me, that is we have to cut spend big 40% and that comes from social security, medicare. >> that's a big cut. >> it's a huge number. >> where does your arrow go if you do that. >> to depression. i want to cut government spending but i don't want to do it overnight. if you have to cut spending by 40% you're looking at a 10% contraction in the economy, looking at depression. that's a pretty clear choice. raise the debt ceiling. >> that's not what we're hearing from a whole lot of other conservatives. you lay the argument out very well. gloria is a cnn senior political analyst. 60% of americans say they oppose raising the debt ceiling. just 37% would be in favor of raising it. that would seem to bolster the republican argument that they want severe cuts in extreme for their vote to raise that credit limit. let's say the debt ceiling is not raised and the u.s. does, as will postulates possibly default on some of its payments. are the consequences as dire