sahil kapur, national political reporter for bloomberg, and mara gay, a member of "the new york timesl board. let's talk first about john kelly before we get to the subject matter. it's been pointed out ad infinitum tonight on cable that all of the previous kellys had come from agrarian island with, you know, as much school learning as any of the folks who preceded us here. people who know kelly know he's been a hard liner on immigration. was the difference today people just hearing him say it? >> i mean one thing about kelly that progressives especially had thought he was going to be a moderating force on issues like immigration, and that certainly has not been the case. my reporting tells me he's of a kindred spirit of hard-liners and he worked to scuttle the daca deal that president trump was originally open to, to keep these young undocumented people in the country here. i think kelly has had a hard line past on this, and he continues to do that starting with dhs and right now some of the things he said, though, don't bear out in the data. immigrants, second-generation immigrants