sally hemmings is a person stranded in -- shrouded in mystery. there are only four references to her that exist. jefferson himself never wrote about her explicitly. she remains this mysterious figure. i think it is important to emphasize that she was related to jefferson's wife. she was martha jeffersons half-sister. she may have even resembled jefferson's wife. in 1784, jefferson took up a post as a trade ambassador. he was trying to forge treaties with the french and other countries so the new u.s. could survive. he wanted to have his daughters with him. he wanted to have martha and mariah, his youngest daughter. he wanted and enslaved woman or girl to accompany mariah on the long passage across the atlantic. it was the young sally hemmings who accompanied mariah to paris. sally hemmings lived with jefferson and his two daughters in paris. that may have been the beginning of their relationship or however you want to describe it. according to sally hemmings's son, she became pregnant by jefferson in paris. it was there that she extracted in impo

sally hemmings was part of a very large family of enslaved people here at monticello who numbered about 80 people. daughter of the hemmings matriarch, elizabeth hemmings. we do believe that years after his wife's death, jefferson fathered six children with sally hemmings, for whom survived to adulthood. sally hemmings was part of an inheritance. i think it is really important to remember that slaves were property, and they could be inherited through marriage as well as being bought and sold, so when jefferson married his wife martha in 1772, she was the daughter of a very wealthy slave trader. it was through him that jefferson inherited 135 slaves, and sally hemmings was one of those slaves, so she was not born in monticello. she was actually born on the eastern shore, and she arrived here in about 1773 or 1774. sally hemmings is a person who is sort of shrouded in mystery because we know so little about her. there are actually only for references to her, descriptions of her that exist in the last 200 years. jefferson himself never wrote about her explicitly, so she remains this very my

it was the young sally hemmings paris.ompanied mariah to sally hemmings lived with jefferson and his two daughters in paris. that may have been the beginning of their relationship or however you want to describe it. according to sally hemmings's son, she became pregnant by jefferson in paris. it was there that she extracted in important promise, and that was if she returned to virginia and for the child, in the future all of her children would be free. this is a huge decision for her. when she was on french soil, she was considered free. if she remained in paris, she could have been a free person. of what we think transpired, she came back here, and when jefferson died, all of those children were free. and thomasngs jefferson controversy, that has been going on for over 200 years. do in thewe want to current initiative that we are embarking on is to focus on sally hemmings herself. we want to divide her from thomas jefferson and that controversy and focus on her as a person. i think in this 200 year debate, she has always been a foil for jefferson. she has never been seen in her own

african-american woman who was also the slave and in some ways that relationship is reminiscent between sally hemmings many of you are probably familiar with that story. it provided a property for them, so it's a firestorm of controversy about race and place in antebellum america and at the school i mentioned is the academy that's famous in its d day. it is a voluntary school. so one of the question questiony our native people interested in education in the early period what do they want to get out of this, and it wasn't an extremely popular school, so eventually over the course of the school come 1845, 1848, about 700 students attended from all over the continent, different tribes that were different as bison hunters from the plane to the churcchurch readers to the great lakes. so it is a diverse place. and i wanted to tell the story because usually it focuses on those that turn west to conquer the continent. how did they try to meet americans in the middle and try to forge the society and also african-americans who challenged the empire to live up to its idea. we look at the interactions and crossin

brian: in your lifetime, you've been involved with jefferson and monticello, the whole sally hemmings relationship, they thought very hard to not expose it. what impact has that had on jefferson's character? david: it has had impact and it always will. the fact that he played -- that he paid reporters to smear john adams. he was funding that. --ferson destroyed every e destroyed every letter he ever wrote to his wife and she wrote to him. what does that tell us? we don't know. washington did the same thing. we cannot really know those men as i wish we could. -- adam'sthe atom papers, there are thousands of letters between john and abigail adams. if only we could have some from jefferson and washington. they are always in debt. john adams was not in debt. i think we need to know more about bp or to. ritans.t the pu the idea that they all dressed black and never smiled and is not like having a good time, not true. not -- and did not like having a good time, not true. form.ry was bad you do not act that way and you are not older. -- you are not vulgar. my great-grandmother was german and

nowadays people are apt to think he was involved with one of his slaves, sally hemmings. but, i think in general people do not have much knowledge of him be on that. my contention in my new book is, thomas jefferson was more than that. he was the most significant, radical statesmen and american history. he was a very significant legislator. a book takes up the topic of jefferson is legislator and develops in five chapters on major themes in his statesmanship. this contention of his radical lists and success. what i mean in college jefferson a radical? well, start with the truism among historians, duke stone Émigre. another way to understand that is, if you are born princess of england and you expect to become the queen you're not up to decide i would rather own a pizza restaurant in australia. jefferson, on the other hand, did something that was the latter. when thomas jefferson was born in 1743 in albemarle county, virginia in the piedmont and the western boundary of euro-american expansion into north america, he was born, more or less, a prince. his father was by far th

brian: in your lifetime, you've been involved with jefferson and monticello, the whole sally hemmingselationship, they fought very hard to not expose it. what impact has that had on jefferson's character? david: it has had impact and it always will. the fact that he paid reporters to smear john adams. he was funding that. not the rules of the game and jefferson destroyed every letter he ever wrote to his wife and she wrote to him. what does that tell us about him? i don't know. washington did the same thing. it is a shame because we cannot really know those men as i wish we could. you take the adam's papers, there are thousands of letters between john and abigail adams. they are marvelous, touching, revealing letters. if only we could have some from ofilar window on the lives jefferson and washington. they are always in debt. john adams was never in debt, but he never had any money. it was a different ethic. i think we need to know more about the puritans. the puritans were not what most people imagine, and i am finding out that with some of the characters i'm working on it i knew a l

now aday people are of apt to think well he was involved with one of his slaves sally hemmings but i think in general people don't have much knowledge of him beyond that. my contention in my new book is the thomas jefferson was more than that. he was -- the most significant radical statesman in american history. he was a very significant legislator and so a book takes up over legislator and develops in fife chapghts on major thooms in his statesmanship and this raddism and as a statesman that's what i mean well start with the kind of truism among historians dukes don't emigrate or o another way to understand that is -- if you're born princess of england and you expect to become the queen, you're not apt to decide you know, rather own a pizza restaurant in u.s. trail ya, right. jefferson on the other hand does sthng that was kind of like the ladder. that is when thomas jefferson was born and in 1743 in virginia, in what was into north america he was born more or less a prince. that is his father was -- by far the most important influential man in his home county and peter jefferson of

he's eventually the guy who blows the whistle on the sally hemmings thing with jefferson, but it's watching two of the preeminent founders think about what's happened and what it means. and that the fact is that they don't agree. two men have lived the same experience, and they don't agree about what it means. and it's, it's the begin, it is the, what i would call the american dialog that i, i find really compelling. >> mm-hm. >> the, and the, it reenforces my notion that history is an argument. and it's an argument -- >> you can see it. >> you can see the american argument being formulated with them. so that, to me, is why that the correspondence is -- >> what i like about it is you have these two elder states men, late in life, reminiscing. these two old bulls reminiscing about their heyday and taking different perspectives, but jefferson to me has always been remarkably enigmatic, and he plants evidence and tries to be above the fray, but he's duplicitous in the fray. but in these letters to me, everseve jefferson is more direct. >> you want to depict it. it's like jefferson's standing,

the time we get to thomas jefferson, his wife was dead before he was elected president, because sally hemmings the first black woman chief executive. she gets the civil wa civil warh before the modern weapon with much slower cost in life and everybody gets past all that much earlier. martha washington is a lot richer. abigail, much smarter than john never would have passed the alien and sedition act even like mrs. harding was a much smarter person and on it goes. >> you said marco rubio doesn't look old enough to drive and ran the campaign of a sixth grader that could neither reached the dashboard or petals at the same time. he's become somewhat outspoken against the administration. >> one of the nice things about living in doing this you get to see these town hall meetings and you get more of a sense of them. he was impressed with his town meeting. he had a pretty straightforward comprehensive platform very honest about what he felt the government could and couldn't do. he had some hostile questions he handled with patients. he was very patient with somebody who had an angry veterans affairs

it was sally having his older brother and james was 19 and jefferson got appointed to become minister of france, he takes hemmingsover to france with him and for three years has him trained as a classical french chef. spends a lot of money to do this. he installs hemmings as his. >> all the money he didn't pay him for being enslaved. >> but when he finishes his training he pays hemmings. he brings him back and he's here in philadelphia. as you know, in the the mid- 1790s, having says i want to be free. jefferson agrees to do this on two conditions. one, you have to teach other enslaved people on monticello how to cook. i spent all this money training you, i want you to impart does not. two, you two, you have to leave behind your recipes. hemmings does this and then he's free on february 5, 179696. what you see rolling through here is a list of all the kitchen utensils that were at monticello and that is written in hemmings hand. that's at the library of congress if you ever want to see it he was literate in english and french. he studied it when he got there. as you mentioned earlier, one of the cofounders of the

hemmings family atment cello. i'm now working with the folks at monticello to try to figure out how to tell sally helping's story as well. we are the legatees of the pain as well as promise so i think -- i think it's -- for me as a historian it's what really gives me great pleasure that -- that so many of the people who have come into this field have kind of a brave, courageous. this is an exhibit here of a very difficult time in brooklyn. we know about the draft riots in manhattan. well, there are draft riots right over here. >> tobaccos. >> and the liggett tobacco company which some of you may remember which was on television. anyway, so i think it's -- it's a subject that i think really gives me some interest and some encouragement i think. >> great. thank you. so let's -- let's turn it over to you for a few minutes. meredith has a microphone, and we would love some questions. not a shy audience, good. >> yes. i would like to know have you run into any problems with putting up exhibits where people say no you can't do that? you can't say that? we wouldn't allow you to do that or exhibit that, and if so, what was

. >> restoration at thomas jefferson's monticello is uncovering the story of sally hemmings and other slaves who live, work, and died at the third president's plantation. next on american history tv's american artifacts: a behind the scenes look at the restoration work. we hear some of the stories that have been revealed. >> if you had visited monticello 20 years ago, you would have just seen jeffersons beautiful new classical villa, but what we wanted to do was