fascinating is when lucian described sally hemmings as the founding mother of the country and all of who helped make history. >> yeah. it's amazing, because when there there were groups of people taking the tours and hearing about it and i said -- they said what going on over here? the two descendants of thomas jefferson. an older gentleman from iowa said i'd never heard of this. >> i didn't either. now we know it's true. thank you. >> thank you. >>> you can hear more of have ladd's interview with lucian and shannon on today's cbs "this morning" podcast available on all major podcast platforms. >>> ahead, nasa says it's final farewell to one of it's greatest explorers. the mars rover opportunity. the little robot's record-breaking work could pave the way to a possible human mission to the red planet. >>> you're watching cbs "this morning." man 1: this is my body of proof. woman 1: proof of less joint pain... woman 2: ...and clearer skin. woman 3: this is my body of proof. man 2: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks

into the front seat in the brains like braille to tattoo inside my eyelids how many times does sally hemmings have to hear about them to affirm the tidy ego it could've been me. i would've missed those dashes in the road into interview pockets fluffy with promises. listening to gospel. in the heaven shaved with blue but it could have been me questioning matheny about his bidding. it could've been me, a black woman or a police man sandy was in texas but a day how long had he been hunting for one like her cracks and then the black man that she claims in this vision as a rogue rascal to coins and praises the black woman without a job owns her dignity and history said he could squeeze gold from a black woman's breast. so yes. i am finished now. [applause] so any questions come to the microphone. and what help me to write the book is here. and the hard work in helping to remind us how many citizens and it was seemingly free labor. thank you. >> good evening. talk louder. thank you for your great work and how you opened up but i enjoyed it. a bound woman is a dangerous thing. you mentioned a palm b

see the slave all the we go to those places where 75000 have been there already this year and sally hemmings who had a relationship with thomas jefferson that they never acknowledged how does that fit in? also the few people have been through the jefferson house. at the same time it is a group effort that you bring something different with it and with a twist. abby: a lot of these we can read about in history books but how do you find these hidden gems? . >> the interior secretary is a huge help you will find people want to tell the story and americans show up to see this stuff but no one is trying to make a profit but just spread the word if you say i'm thinking about coming here i need a twist show me something they say come with leave is not the person on the phone it's the next person. we find it and do the research and then our goal is no matter how long it takes to tell the story we give it that much time. it is exciting for us. i don't know the answers when i'm showing up so i learn the answers while i'm there and that is the most intriguing part. abby: i heard you are like national c

you want to go to monticello we go to the places where 75000 people have been there and with sally hemmings jefferson they never acknowledge. and also adding a third floor to jefferson's house that very few people have been through. and then trying to do that with a twist. >> so a lot of these things that you mention that you read about in history books but how do you find the hidden gems quick. >> the interior secretary you will find especially in the national parks people want to tell the story and americans show up to see this but and just trying to spread the word so if you show up and say i'm thinking about coming here and then the next person and then the goal is no matter how long it takes to tell the story we will give you that much time. that is exciting for us. i don't know the answers when i show up. so i am learning with the experts and that is the most intriguing part. >> i heard that you are nicolas cage and national treasure. what about the declaration of independence have you tried to sell on - - deal that cracks it's hard to understand what he says because he mumbles. like

the headquarters were and 75,000 people have been already this year and we have a relative of sally hemmingship with thomas jefferson that he never acknowledged. how does that fit? jefferson's house, very few people have been. a group effort at the same time try bring something different about it, try to do it with a twist. >> right, a lot of the places that you're mentioning we can read about in history books but how do you find hidden gems? >> interior secretary was such a great help. people want to tell the story and americans show up to see this stuff and here you have two things, no one is trying to make a profit, they are trying to spread the word, if you show up and you say, hey, i'm thinking about coming here, i need a twist, show me somebody nobody has, if it's not the person you're talking on the phone, it's the next person. we find out that we do the research, no matter how long it takes to tell the story, we will give you that much time. it's exciting for us, i don't know all the answers when i show up. i'm learning with the experts and i find out the most interesting part of it.

. >> jordan who help me on the project a decade or 20 years ago, had an essay about sally hemmings. he said that when he started doing this, there was nobody, there was john hope franklin in one or two other people, and he ended up that she must've worked on white over black. >> that the masterpiece and i'm sure he did work on that for quarter of a century or so. >> yeah. why do you think george washington was so obsessed with getting judge back after he escaped and began living as a fugitive? >> george washington you could tell the same story about jefferson, exemplify visibility for human beings to contradict themselves fundamentally. on the one hand he wrote privately, i wish slavery would go away and be gradual abolition and it's a real problem morally and practically. on the other hand, it was his property. he like many of the founding fathers, while they might have regretted the fact that they inherited the slaves and preferred a utopian world where human beings would not be enslaved, they were so deeply tied to the conception of themselves as slaveowners, that it was very har

sally. james hemmings was her elder brother that had taken over as a cook. lly came later as a lady's maid for a younger daughter. zelda went with him at the beginning. and then sally accompanied her over, so she was there in paris as well, but the scandal wasn't put into print until 1802, so how did jefferson handle that? he said practically nothing, and he denied it and said well, what you are hearing is not -- but he's a little vague about it and says what you're hearing is not true and didn't really comment on it further than that and of course the family denied it as well, so he handled it very much like he did the scandal with the letter earlier , and earlier a scandal with thomas paine, can't go into that but i said -- it's like he said okay maybe if i don't say anything it will go away so he just did not make much comment on it at all. he did say in a letter to friends -- from france which are hearing is not true but that's all we know from him. question back here. >> can you comment on the appointment of jefferson to the french court? and why adams d