sam clovis.en contacts george papadopoulos, offers him $3,000 to write a paper and come to england in august of 2016 and when papadopoulos is there, he starts pushing on him, asking him questions about what does he know about the russians, what does he know about emails. even at that point -- >> sean: why didn't they ask wikileaks? it did wikileaks have any proof? we do know thatik hillary clinton's server, andri the original draft of comey, said there were six foreign intelligence services that got into her email server. it could have been russia, china, north korea, iran, i'm just guessing. >> of course, that is what u.s. intelligence officials have said, there is no doubt that her server was infiltrated by foreign actors. why haven't -- >> sean: i want that information. america deserves that information. >> america deserves all the information including the documentation that opened up this investigation. that's what america deserves. >> sean: bingo. there's new york a "new york te out tonight

your client is sam clovis, apparently is being approached by someone -- >> no, lou. not approached. carter page and my client sam clovis to meet with them to try to set them up. it's very clear. i don't know who was directing him from the u.s. government. we don't have those facts yet. it's clear they were being targeted. in early july 2016 carter page was at a conference in cambridge. professor halper. a week after that carter page emailed sam clovis who says this professor saw on cnn and wants to meet with you. then clovis emails him and said carter page suggested i meet with you. does that sounds like a setup? sam said to me he never would have met with this guy. he didn't know him from adam. but he used carter page's name so he figured he was an all right person to meet with. lou: eric holder is talking about the norms of the department of justice being under assault. what is eric holder on. >> you set this up perfectly will the history of the only attorney general to be held in contempt of congress. his tenure was a disgrace. he was responsible for fast and furious. he lied to

and sam clovis who was encouraged papadopoulos to have secret meeting.d he's the target of a foreign intelligence electronic wiretap because probable cause has been established a reasonable suspicion, that he's san agent of a foreign power. so, yes indeed, the fbi is within its rights to go after and tease out information about these three people. >> caroline, if the mueller team finds evidence of wrongdoing, how does it help the president if he can prove that miscontain was targeted by bad actors? >> well, alex, like so much in this investigation, i think it's within the eye of the beholder. we've seen giuliani and trump take the angle here that this is part of the witch hunt. we're doing talking about the semantics of it. was it an implanted spy, a mole, or counterintelligence operative giving information back to the fbi? so, i think that really the question is whether or not this is going to play to his base more. yes, absolutely, if it can be shown that the doj standards and procedures for informants were not followed if politically motivated, but i

sam clovis' role in the campaign was among other things to help negotiate the foreign policy advisers, which page and papadopoulos were. as you said, it's very complicated. but all that being said, the important thing to take away here is that the contact between this informant and the members of the trump campaign was fairly limited, but more importantly, it all happened after the fbi had already started investigating these folks. the fbi had a conversation with page in march of 2016. they already had a conversation with him back in 2013 when it looked like the russians were trying to flip him. the confidential informant did not speak to papadopoulos until mid-september, a month and a half after the investigation had opened, as you pointed out. all of this suggests that this was adding evidence to what the fbi was already looking at, not that it was in any way a predicate for the investigation itself. >> i want to put on the screen a tweet from the president of the united states that you used in your column. he wrote this, reports are that there was, indeed, at least one fbi represen

sam clovis not sticking to the script there. the reason this larger showdown matters so much, not only because this information depends on con t and perspective but also professionalism. that's what we have a big difference between unfortunately the devin nunes-led house intelligence committee and the house intelligence committee that mike rodgers led. the partisanship has seeped in further. there unfortunately every reason to believe there won't only be leaks but potentially back channelling to the white house as devin nunes has been accused of before in the context of this investigation. and it undercuts not only the separation of powers between congress and the president but also a direct assault on the independence of the justice department and the prosecutorials. the trump team strategy is to investigate the investigators, this further not only puts that assault, that independence under assault but has a toxic partisanship that will infuse this entire process even further and get us further from the simple search for truth

and now looking back, sam clovis finds that unusual. and so we're just trying to piece together the reporting. what's important about this story is that we're learning more about the origin of the russia investigation. we knew about the steele dossier, but what else? and that's what we've been trying to piece together. and this fbi source is an important part, but there's still much to learn. >> let me ask you one final question. it has to do with journalism as a trade as much as your work, and that is that your work and "the new york times" tonight have walked right up to the line of giving this guy's name out. it is not difficult to figure out who it is if you're in the line of work that he is. i note that on social media, other people have already speculated as to his name. if he is outed, that burns every conversation he's had going back 15 years. how do you approach something like that? >> it's a very delicate situation. we know the name. as we put in our story, we are aware based on our reporting of who this source is. however, it

professor halper, targeted both carter page and my client sam clovis to meet with him and try to set clear. i don't know who was directing him from the u.s. government. we don't have those facts yet. but they were targeted and this is what happened in early of july of 2016, carter page was in a conference in cambridge and met the professor halper. a week after that carter page e-mail would same clovis there is a professor that wants to meet you. and professor halperand said carter page suggested i meet with you. now, does that sound like a set up? he was bootstrapping his introduction to sam clovis and sam said he would never have met with this guy and didn't know him from a tam. he used carter page's name and figured it was an all right person to meet with. >> lou: eric holder talking about the norms of the department of justice being under assault. my, joe, what is eric holder on? >> you have to remember, lou, you set it up perfectly with the history of him, only attorney general held in contempt of congress. his tenure was a disgrace. he was responsible with fast and furious and l

nice to see you on this tuesday morning. >> eric: sam clovis, the former trump campaign official saysthat alleged informant and i'll ask congressman lee zeldin on what mr. clovis says. >> sandra: breaking news out of california's sanctuary state. a state lawmaker calling for a plan to provide free healthcare for illegal immigrants. so who is going the pay for it? our panel takes this one up. plus remember this? >> there is potentially an ice activity planned in the bay area. residents should know that they do not have an obligation to open their door if an ice official knocks. >> eric: that's the warning and it sparked outrage about that california mayor when she warned illegal immigrants about upcoming ice raids. now the new move one lawmaker is trying to take to make sure that never happens again. >> sandra: and f.b.i. agent robert levin son. one of the many americans being held captive in iran. we'll talk to his daughter on the fight to bring him back 11 years later. >> we're working diligently to bring each american missing wrongfully detained in iran home. ♪ come fly with me, let

it finds sam clovis and george papadopoulos and carter page connected with the campaign of donald trump getting together with russians over and over again and then lying about it, and it looks like there is a conspiracy afoot. at that point the department of justice is doing exactly what we would want it to do to protect all of us, and it uses a standard technique. it debriefs informers that its relied on. it's not surveillance, it's not spying. warns the trump campaign but what does the trump campaign do? it does nothing. it doesn't protect anybody and now it's using this as a kind of phony excuse to create what could be a constitutional crisis by for the first time in our history having the president hereby order an investigation by the justice department. in our system of government, even though the justice department is part of the executive, it is not a situation where it can be ordered whom to investigate. when the irs did something not nearly as serious, the country was up in arms. you don't deploy, unless you're richard nixon or now donald trump, you don't deploy the agencies of

and also sam clovis, a campaign chair. both saying they're keeping it secret to protect their safety. and at this hour, nbc news has not confirmed. gabby, i'm going to start with you here first, what was the fbi trying to find out through this informant? >> well, i think they were looking for any eagerness among trump campaign aides to jump at the opportunity to work with either russian officials or receive potentially damaging information on obviously the opponent hillary clinton. and someone in the russian government. this is the thing that george papadopoulos' meeting with various individuals about. carter page has obviously been a shady figure throughout this investigation. and the fact that these two had met with the informant, sam clovis had met with him. and it does seem whether the trump campaign was willing to collude with russian officials. >> i'm curious, ozzy, why you think the timing of this information coming from the fbi -- let's face it, the president puts out a tweet that according to the information put o

he was talking about infiltration. >> all three of the people we're discussing, papadopoulos and sam clovis, carter page, all met with this professor. we know that all three are implicated in the russia probe. so it doesn't change anything. i think what we have here is an effort in advance of the likelihood that mueller's going to ask the president to testify under oath, to somehow diminish the quality of the investigation and the quality of the intelligence agencies that contribute to it. >> chris: i want to turn to the other big story this week and that of course is the on again, off again singapore summit between trump and kim. the north koreans saying not so fast and the president quite remarkably offering assurances to kim if you make a deal with us, you can stay in power and your country will see untold riches from investment from the west. congresswoman harmon, what do you make of this? >> talking it better than bombing. i hope the talks are successful. i applaud president trump for making this highest priority, something that president obama did not do. president trump tells us that

using a confidential informant or source to try to talk to george papadopoulos or carter page or sam clovisy this, in all of the information that i've seen as somebody who's been on this intelligence committee doing this investigation now for over a year, i it not see anybody who served as a spy in the trump campaign. >> can you say that again? you didn't think who served as a spy? >> i didn't see anybody, i didn't see any indication that anybody was serving as a spy? >> did you know about this confidential informant? >> there is some stuff that's classified that i can't discuss. in reviewing everything and everything that was presented to us, no, there was no indication that anybody was a spy. in fact, i think yesterday carter page who was part of the trump campaign basically said that based on his interactions, he had no indication that anybody was spying on the campaign. >> sam clovis has virtually said something similar. >> sure. >> so what does congress do about this that the president is tweeting this morning that this could be the biggest scandal in history? >> i mean that's the pres

the campaign to make efforts to reach out to carter page, to george papadopoulos, apparently to sam clovis try to find out what they were doing with the russians. do you think that's a problem? >> i think this whole area is a problem. let me tell you why. the department of justice used a document prepared by a foreign agent, paid for by a political party to obtain a fisa warrant and never told the court. if they were using somebody to engage the trump campaign, was there judicial oversight? 24tsomebody's got to watch those who watch us. senator grassley sent a letter asking questions about this. all i'm intent on letting mr. mueller do his job. i want to make sure that the fbi, the department of justice did not try to in their own way change the outcome of the election. did they use techniques and tactics approved by the court or did they just make this up themselves? i don't know. >> chris: i've got less than a minute left. rudy guliani was back at it again this week, attacking the special council investigation. here he is. >> if you're going to write an unfair report, write it and we wil

he would subsequently have interaction with papadopoulos and sam clovis, three different representativesthe trump campaign. there's no evidence to suggest that the confidential source was a part of the trump campaign nor anything to indicate that he was ever embedded into the trump campaign. he reportedly appears to have provided the fbi with information about his interactions with the three trump campaign officials as the fbi was trying to investigate russian meddling in the american election. that's the timeline. now three points i want to make. first, ask yourself this. when the fbi was contacted by the representatives of a u.s. ally -- australia -- and told that a presidential campaign operative had accurately predicted a hostile government's document drop of stolen e-mails of another presidential campaign, what should the fbi have done? run it down, of course. second, as noted by aaron blake of "the washington post," the reason these facts don't make sense as a spygate conspiracy is that if the aim were to ushd mine donald trump's election, then why did all this remain a secret unti

it sounds like he met with papadopoulos, carter page and i guess sam clovis in some capacity. >> right. >> overseas with carter page, according to the reporting by "the new york times," "the washington post" and also with papadopoulos, and basically asked questions that didn't seem to get many really answers. >> well, we don't know that. all we know is that he was sent to have contact with people in the middle of a campaign. i have to tell you, if this had happened to hillary clinton, the aclu would be jumping up and down the way they did when i was on the board of the aclu when undercover agents were put into the anti-war movement, into civil rights movement. all they were there was to listen, into muslim churches. civil libertarians are generally a little bit suspicious when undercover agents go just to ask questions. and i think we as civil libertarians ought to be suspicious of this. allay our suspicions and then we'll be fine. >> jeff, it didn't come out of nowhere. george papadopoulos, according to all the reporting, had already voiced and spoken to an australian official which i

american professor, interacted with trump-campaign members george papadopoulos, carter page and sam clovisies of tweets friday, president trump wrote that the f.b.i., "implanted, for political purposes," "a spy in the trump campaign." adding that, "they are out to frame donald trump for crimes he didn't commit." >> let's get to conclusion first. conclusion is, no wrong doing. >> reporter: rudy guiliani, the president's attorney, acknowledged some uncertainty. >> first of all, i don't know for sure, nor does the president, if there really was one. we are told that. so, we either have an embedded informant, or we have a deep throat who's reporting after the fact. >> reporter: as special counsel robert mueller enters the second year of the russia probe, reports of the f.b.i. informant dye not likely to help what is an already tense relationship between president trump and the department of justice. with the president and his staff frequently dismissing the investigation, white house keviser kellyanne conway spoke to reporters on friday. >> you've had a year-- over a year to prove this and you

informant met with at least three trump campaign advisers, carter page, george papadopolous, and sam clovisthe f.b.i. learned that they had suspicious contacts with russians. yesterday the president tweeted, "i hereby demand that the department of justice look into whether or not the f.b.i., d.o.j. infiltrated or surveilled the trump campaign for political purposes." in response, rosenstein asked the inspector general's office to expand its current investigation into the origins of the russia probe. after today's meeting, the president appeared satisfied with that outcome. >> a very courageous man. he's courageous. congressman devin nunes. thank you very much, devin, for being here. >> reporter: at the c.i.a. today, mr. trump praised republican congressman devin nunes who earlier this month subpoenaed the justice department for all documents related to the f.b.i. informant. f.b.i. director christopher wray has so far refused to share the informant's identity with congress. >> human sources in particular who put themselves at great risk to work with us and with our foreign partners have to b

carter page, george papadopoulos, and sam clovis after the fbi learned they had suspicious contacts withsians. yesterday, the president tweeted. i hereby demand that the department of justice look into whether or not the fbi doj infiltrated surveiled the trump campaign for political purposes. in response, rosenstein asked the inspector general's office to expand its current investigation into the origins of the russia probe. after today's meeting the president appeared satisfied with that outcome. >> a very courageous man. courageous. congressman, devin nunez. thank you very much for being here. >>> the search continues for two convicted killers who escaped from a south carolina prison. meg oliver has the the story. jail in orangeberg, meg. >> jeff, the brazen escape took less than ten minutes to play out here saturday night. three inmates threw blan kelts -- blankets over barbed wire and took off running towards the woods. cbs news learned the escape happened after an electrical shortage opened cell doors in one section. a few inmates took advantage of the situation and jumped one of th

sam clovis joins us.nks for coming on. >> thanks for having me on. >> you believe you had a face-to-face encounter. describe that meeting. >> several days before the september 1st meeting i had an opportunity to receive emails from steven halper, saying he knew carter page, and asked for a sit-down with me. he wanted to come in and discuss foreign policy and to provide some -- what he thought might be his -- some of his writings that would be able to contribute, help us, in the campaign. i arranged that meeting. we had that meeting in washington, d.c. on the 1st of september. it lasted about an hour. had the opportunity to discuss over coffee with him his research, and it was mostly focused on china. then i think after that meeting, and then on the 27th of september i received an email from him with several attachments. i can be honest with you, tucker, i haven't even opened those attachments to this day. i have no idea what was in them, but mostly papers titled that dealt with china. i think he used my m

they include campaign co-chairman sam clovis, carter page and george papadopoulos. the president sent a dozen tweets over the last 72 hours. a dozen. including eight yesterday. quote, if the fbi or doj was infiltrating for the benefit of another campaign, that is a really big deal. only the release or review of documents that the house intelligence committee, also senate judiciary, is asking for can give the conclusive answers -- drain the swamp. and finally yesterday afternoon this tweet. i hereby demand and will do so officially tomorrow -- i hereby demand that the department of justice will look into whether or not the fbi doj, infiltrated for political purposes and if any such demands or requests were made by people within the obama administration. last night the justice department said its inspector general will expand the review of the fisa process for impropriety or political motivation in the counterintelligence investigation of russian agents in the 2016 race. and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein issued a statement, if anyone did infiltrate or surveil

. >> met with carter page and sam clovis and was recommended for administration position.als known to paul manafor it but they were not in contact during the election. with the insistence on a parallel investigation of the justice department expanding an existing code for the allegations the ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee accused the president of overstepping his authority. >> this is information the justice department, fbi have concerns about in terms of risk. what has been set is dynamite. it is the scandal of our time. >> reporter: house republicans introduced a resolution calling for a second special counsel to investigate allegations against the justice department and the fbi spanning 3 appear go to include the clinton email case, alleged government surveillance abuse and how and why the russia investigation began into the trump campaign. >> this president turned over 1.2 million documents to the special counsel and yet our doj and fbi in a 7 month. go delivered less than 19,000 documents. >> reporter: catherine herridge, fox news. jillian: james

you met carter page, sam clovis, michael caputo. they're spies. you found the definition first. >> if you look up the definition, it defines exactly what the fbi was using this man for. to infiltrate the campaign, to induce and in my judgment entrap people to saying things that were incriminating. ney never did because there was nothing incriminating to say. there was no collusion. that's why nobody has ever been charged with this fictitious crime of collusion. >> sean: there's no such thing. joe, good to see you. when we come back, rudy guliani. later on, wing have a mini monologue. we'll examine the cancellation of "roseanne" and we'll talk about liberal hypocrisy. that's straight ahead. printed? the business advisors at office depot can assist with exactly what your business needs to grow. get your coupon for 20% off services, technology and more at office depot and officedepot.com. >> if the fbi was so concerned and if they weren't targeting trump, they should have told trump. if they're really concerned about the russians infiltrating a campa

george papadopoulos and sam clovis, an active member of the trump campaign. the president yesterday in the oval office with moon jae-in of south korea sounding off about the whole thing. listen here. >> president trump: if they had spies in my campaign that would be a disgrace to this country. that would be one of the biggest insults that anyone has ever seen and would be very illegal aside from everything else. it would make probably every political event ever look like small potatoes. if they had spies in my campaign during my campaign for political purposes, that would be unprecedented in the history of our country. >> james comey taking issue with the president's use of the word spy but not denying that the informant was working trump campaign officials. he said facts matter. the f.b.i.'s use of confidential human services is essential to protecting the country. attacks on the f.b.i. and lying about its work will do lasting damage to our country. how will republicans explain to to their grandchildren? it drew sharp reaction from david bossie this morning.

carter page, george papadopoulos, and sam clovis. in a meeting monday, president trump told deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and fbi director christopher wray to work out how they could get documents relating to the informant and they face our request to surveil page two congressional investigators. >> we collect spygate. you are calling it spygate. a lot of bad things have happened. i want a lot to get together. they will sit in the room. hopefully they will be able to work it out among themselves. >> at the meeting tomorrow, house intelligence committee chairman devin nunes, government oversight chairman trey gowdy, ed o'callaghan from the department of justice, fbi director christopher wray and director of national intelligence, dan coats. no democrats invited. senate minority leader today insisted congressman nunes is trying to interfere with the russian investigation and put the blame for that squarely on paul ryan's shoulders. >> speaker ryan is allowing this to happen, who will forever be -- it will forever be a blot on

who was then approaching people like papadopoulos and sam clovis and caputo during the months of marchand may? something doesn't fit here and hopefully get to the bottom of it because it does sound criminal in nature. liz: where does this informant story go from here? the one side said it was legit to put informant on campaign due to fears about russian meddling. the other side said no, this is unprecedented. this is domestic spying on political rival to get a democrat in office to protect obama's legacy. where does this go from here? >> should go back to the beginning, and that's one of the things that the house intelligence committee is asking for. they want to see the documents that launched the investigation because the timeline is extremely off. and i think that's where we're going to determine whether or not this was warranted. they're saying there might have been contacts between russian individuals and the trump campaign, so far that has turned out to not be true in the collusion story line, but where was that information coming from? the united states government had to receive

this is the highest ranking diplomats i believe was interested in carter page and in september, sam clovishts? >> i agree and in fact what happened to me if it is in fact an operation trying to set me up with classified tied information offer r or hillary's e-mails whatever it was the first or second times it looks a lot like what happened to george papadopoulos and you know i was pretty harsh on george papadopoulos when it came down to what he was being charged with, i really feel badly about calling him a coffee boy and i apologized to him today. he really got screwed. our country failed george papadopoulos and his family. carter page, you know, didn't take the bait and he's a gentleman about it but what happened, may end up being a great big misunderstanding but lou it could also be the keys to the kingdom of god, and i was shocked that nobody from any of the investigations wanted to know anything about it and now that the president, i understand the skepticism and the inspector general and the doj but i was impressed with his report about scott mccabe so i'm a bit optimistic about this

president's campaign in 2016, three members of the campaign that we have been able to confirm, sam clovis, carter page and george papadopoulos. it's another way for the president to try to undermine the whole premise of the russia investigation. certainly gives him more ammunition that the entire thing may have been politically motivated. the president also wants to make sure the congressional investigating committees get all the information they're looking for. yesterday calling in the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and f.b.i. director chris wray to the oval office. sarah sanders the press secretary putting out this statement. based on the meeting with the president, the department of justice has asked the inspector general to expand its current investigation to include any irregularities with the f.b.i. concerning the trump campaign and agreed that john kelly will immediately set up a meeting with the f.b.i., d.o.j. and director of national intelligence together with congressional leaders to review information they have requested. last night martha maccallum interviewing vice pr

sam clovis. michael cavuto. they are spies.ou found the definition first. >> if you look at the definition, putk it on the screen, it defines exactly what the fbi was using this man for. to infiltrate the campaign, to induce, and in my judgment, and trap people into same things that were incriminating. they never did because there was nothing incriminating to say. there was no collusion. that's exactly why nobody has ever been charged with this fictitious crime of collusion. >> sean: there is no such thing. sad. good to see you. we are waiting for your book. joe, always good to see you. when i come back, the president's attorney rudy giuliani. later on, in many monologue examining abc's cancellation of the show "roseanne." we'll do something nobody else in the media will do. we'll talk about liberal hypocrisy. that's straight ahead. ♪ need something printed? the business advisors at office depot can assist with exactly what your business needs to grow. get your coupon for 20% off services, technology and more at office depot an

i think when you take what classifier said and sam clovis came out, one of the individuals supposedly engaged by this confidential informant. >> and carter page. >> i don't know if page came forward or not. >> he did. >> oh, did he? i missed that. he said all he did was talk to me about china. this is a guy at least in the public reports, if this is their informant, and i think that's the one they're talking about, he's been engaged in foreign policy discussions with a whole host of presidents and campaigns. so i think they have conflated a lot of things. i don't think the odds are very good. i think it was highly suspect that they would task an asset or informant to go after someone in the campaign. i can't imagine them doing that. if they did it, i will tell you that is a pretty serious event. i'm going to hold out here for more facts before i could get to that conclusion. >> david gregory, i could not get past the split screen juxtaposition yesterday of the president and the heads of i.c.e. and the acting a.g. holding the meeting on ms-13, talking about how vital the fbi and the de

he doesn't care or know much about carter page or george papadapoulos or -- or the sam clovis, the third person they met with. most candidated seeing that would have said, if they had some weird connection with the russians, thank god the fbi was there to figure it out. instead he's now held those three people closer and said, this was an attack on his campaign. where previously he was arguing they weren't that important. and that to me is one of the most suspicious actions because it suggests he's trying to cover something up. >> and the problem is that these are things that res own a-- resonate with the public and the base of support and perhaps other people. when you start attacking investigators and attacking investigations and there are people who question authority. of course. there are people who believe that whatever the government does, there must be something mysterious. there ma be something untoward or inappropriate or illegal. he's on to something. but to do it without any basis whatsoever, and then to have conspiracy theorist believes it and otherwise undermine the confiden

foreign policy team, the professors, they tried to get two of them, carter page and my client, sam clovisi hope will be with us next week. they didn'tt bite. then they found the weak link, a 27-year-old georgeye papadopoul. here's what has been reported, and when you think about it, and i researched it today, george papadopoulos is told by a professor with close ties to the kremlin that the russians have hillary's emails. that is in april. in may, george finds himself at a bar in london at some gorgeous blonde comes up and starts buying him drinks, my goodness, and then she introduces him to her good friend, the australian ambassador, and somehow, the conversation goes to hillary clinton emails. >> sean: four way hearsay. hearsay is not admissible in court. you are the attorney, correct, victoria? >> that didn't matter here. he is just a saying -- he is talking about -- there is a term for it. it is called honey trapping. this is classic spy agency cia, i used to be chief counsel for the senate intelligence committee. this is classic spying technique, honey trapping, using the allure of s

sam clovis, carter page and george papadopoulos. previously the trump campaign and the white house said that the three people were really not very important to the campaign. so the question i have is, why does president trump care so much if the fbi was worried that these three individuals might have been penetrated by a foreign adversary, why would the president care? why would he want to shut that kind of investigation down? wouldn't trump and the campaign want the know if they had these sort of low level campaign advisers who had some illicit connections? in other words, if the senior members of the campaign are innocent and they didn't have the connections, wouldn't they want the justice department to have this figured out? >> right. >> and it -- it's baffling to me that trump then turns this into first of all saying what is not true, calling this person an informant implanted to the campaign. that is just false. and second of all, making it not wanting to know what their connections were. >> right. carrie, what do you think is

we understand they met with campaign aides carter page and sam clovis and at one point was recommended for administration position. the individual was known to former trump campaign chairman paul manafort as well from the '70s but we are also told there was no contact between the two men in the presidential campaign. on fox last night a house republican who backs a second special counsel played down expectations about getting informant records. >> i don't believe at the upcoming meeting that chairman nunes is having with members of the intelligence community that there will be any production of documents. that is deeply concerning to me. if you to look at the scoreboard, the deep state is winning the battle because they are in full control of their own destiny. that is why congressman lee zeldin and jim jordan and i joined with two dozen of the colleagues to call for a second special counsel. >> just for context here, this whole confrontation over the records really began on april 30. and that is when the republican chairman of the house intelligence committee issued a subpoena for the

nada, sam clovis, one of the trump campaign advisers who met with this confidential source talked about the meeting, pretty revealing, fascinating, but i wonder how significant you think it is. listen to what he said to an iowa radio station. >> the meeting was very high level, it was like two faculty members sitting down in the faculty lounge talking about research. and there was no indication or no inclination that this was anything other than just wanting to offer up his help to the campaign if i needed it. it was not anything other than him talking about the research that he had done on china. and that was essentially what the discussion was about. and we already had a lot of china people involved. >> when you listen to that, does that sound like infiltration, embedding to you or how does that ring in your ears? >> no, and in fact, you know, when the fbi is looking at it, an informant or confidential source, it is because of the position that they hold or, you know, by facility where they're sitting in relation to the investigation. they're naturally coming across information, they'