sam clovis was a key witness in the george papadopoulos part of the investigation. >> i know you said that you want congress to pass a bill to protect mueller. republicans showed no sign of having any interest in that, even after the democrats, you know, assume power in the house, they're still going to control the senate. >> mitch mcconnell has shown no sign of interest, but others passed legislation to protect mueller. mcconnell is subverting the will of the majority and not allowing a vote. on the house side, we haven't seen any interest at all. but as we have this budget showdown, democrats are telling republicans in the house if you want us to give you votes because they're unable to get the votes on their own, you're going to need to protect the mueller legislation. >> so you're optimistic it could still happen? >> yes, if they want our votes. for two years, the republicans have controlled the senate, house and white house and they haven't passed a budget. >> congressman, thanks. >> my pleasure. >>> a lot to talk about. a lot of people with views on it. it almost feels like elec

and also, sam clovis recommended him. whitaker came here and he was a terrific guest but he was a guest that came on our shows to argue against the mueller investigation. that's what he did and who he was, and i presume how he ended up in the justice department. >> it's a big part, but i don't think it's the only part, but it's a big part of it. whitaker is a partisan player, as are many people in previous administrations as well, but he has been extremely vocal and generally speaking to the point made before, you would try to look at the optics of this and not have somebody who had been such a critic. whitaker described on the clip you showed about essentially starving the investigation of oxygen, and it's what some trump advisers think he might do. i don't think he can impact the funding, but you could make decisions about the scope of whether the report becomes public, and how many people the mueller report goes to, and that's the open question between now and when the new congress gets sworn in. >> do we know how long

looking at whether public statements while you're not in office -- >> there he is up there with sam clovisl, that's a separate question. i'm not sure that presents a conflict. as to what -- your fist question about his public statements, the ethics people are looking at whether that would require him to recuse. that would be an unusual thing if the president appointed him thinking he was more loyal and it turns out he has to recuse himself. democrats on the hill are saying it's a conflict and he should rekur recuse. one other point has to be made. rod rosenstein appointed robert mueller. he wrote the road map for the investigation. he's been following it day to day. matt whitaker because he's been working for the attorney general, the attorney general is recused, the attorney general's staff is recused. it's going to be a speed bump for robert mueller because he has to bring whitaker up to speed on wehere the investigatin stands. it's going to be a period of adjustment for the special counsel too. >> pete, thank you. i have to bring in kristen welker. what is the white house telling you? >

sam clovis said he's a good friend of matthew whittaker's. and he oversaw papadopoulos at the trump campaign. if he refuses to follow that recommendation to recuse himself, i think it's a sign the fix was in from the beginning. trump has told people apparently he won't recuse himself. i think that will be a sign trump sent him in there to shutdown this investigation in one way or another. >> presumably whittaker has told the president under no circumstances will he recuse himself because the president has said he would never put anyone in that job that's going to recuse himself. but that leaves whittaker another choice. before he presumably will refuse to recuse himself even if advised to do so by the professionals, he then has the choice of do i interfere with the mueller investigation or to what extent do i interfere with the mueller investigation? and that's where he starts to enter criminal possible liability of obstruction of justice especially after refusing any counsel of recusal. >> there were some who ended up serving jail time becau

and whitaker was -- had a political relationship with him, with his boss, sam clovis, in iowa.t connection. so the question is, does that trigger enough -- is that enough of a trigger where he should completely recuse himself? that's where the ethics lawyers at the justice department will have to study. >> and kurt, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell warned democrats against investigating the president earlier this week. let's listen. >> the whole issue of presidential harassment is interesting. i remember when we tried it in the late '90s. we impeached president clinton. his numbers went up and ours went down. we underperformed in the next election. so the democrats in the house will have to decide just how much presidential harassment they think is good strategy. >> does mcconnell make a good point there? >> no, because i don't remember mitch mcconnell being concerned or even calling it harassment when house republicans, including my former boss, was investigating operation fast and furious during the obama administration or the four years they investigated benghazi and h

he's friend with sam clovis, a witness in the mueller investigation.hat else have you fnd that's hanging over whitaker as a cloud? >> well, one of the things that many legal theorists talk about being the most fundamental is his view of the role of the courts. he was asked to enumerate badon deci by the supreme court. he singed out marbury vs. madison. -- by raising a doubt, by criticizing that ruling, you could read to mean that he sees the courts as having an inferior position in the government. for the legal theorist in washgton, that more than maybe more of the other issues includino his prior statements of the mueller investigation are what has himwo y. it doesn't pass statements or not predictive of future actions, but in this case he's well outside the legal mainstream. a lot of people in washington are worried about that as well. robert: what about the president's pick to replace attorney general sessiont and someone over whitaker? could he look to a judge or a senator or a chris christie or an alex acosta?t >> looks like he's going to get stuc

reporter: whitaker also has ties to a witness in the mueller probe, former trump campaign chair sam clovis. whitaker chaired clovis' run for iowa state treasurer in 2014. sources tell cbs news whitaker has no plans to recuse himself, despite calls from democrats to do so. >> what raises my concerns is a person who has been so vocal against the investigation that was going on, now putting in charge a day after the election. >> reporter: rod rosenstein was able to oversee the russia investigation, even though he is a witness in that probe. now whitaker's allies are using that point to support why he should be able to oversee the investigation. jeff. >> glor: paula is outside the department of justice for us. thank you. up next here on the "cbs evening news," an update on supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg in the hospital after a fall. carla is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking prescription ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women with hormone receptor-positive her2- m

asking whether the fact that he made comments about this his relationship with one of the witnesses sam clovis so they're basically sort of three buckets of possible issues here once constitutional one statutory ones ethical and so you've got to believe that the president is already saying you know what i just want this guy for a short time the president know him the president saying now i hardly even know this guy so it seems to me that the president's distancing himself and saying you know it's time to to move on and find somebody else you know reporter and the lawyer and also. a passionate opinionated person can you remove you so from this and say legally business sure but in my heart i think he should require look i'll tell you for i think that i've said this on my radio show i think that whitaker was not the best choice for this job that even if comes in with a pre well but but beyond that jeff sessions no matter what you think of him was qualified right he had held positions very high positions in alabama in the legal community he'd been a united states senator you may love or hate jeff

he was a campaign chairman for sam clovis and clovis still described him as a friend. that sort of personal connection to that ongoing investigation would usually require the recusal of anybody at the justice department for anybody overseeing that kind of investigation. apparently matt whitaker, as far as we know, does not see the need to recuse. outgoing republican senator jeff flake whose senate seat in arizona was just won by kyrsten sinema, senator flake pushed a bipartisan bill to try to protect special counsel robert mueller from getting fired. republican senate leadership quickly blocked the bill. senator flake then announced that his fellow republicans can't count on his vote for any more judges or anything else until they pass the protect mueller bill. >> i would like to take this opportunity to say a few words about what special counsel mueller and his team have been investigating and why. as the point of this vital investigation seems to have been purposely confused and maligned by the white house in a rather alarming way. this bill was designed to do one th

. >> reporter: whitaker also has ties to a witness in the mueller probe, former campaign chair sam clovis. whitaker ran clovis' run for in 2014. sources tell cbs news whitaker has no plans to recuse himself despite calls from democrats to do so. >> what raises my concerns is a person who has been so vocal against the investigation that was going on now put in charge the day after the election. >> reporter: rod rosenstein was able to oversee the russia investigation even though he is a witness in that probe. now whitaker's allies are using that point to support why he should be able to oversee the investigation. jeff? >> paula is outside the department of justice for us. thank you. >>> up next here, an update on supreme court justice know what turns me on? my better half, hors d oeuvres and bubbly. and when i really want to take it up a notch we use k-y yours & mine. tingling for me, warming for him. wow! this holiday season get what you want darrell's [darreisn't that the dog's towel? [dog sfx] hey, mi towel, su towel. more scent plus oxi boost and febreze in every gain fling. >>> supreme

well, matthew whitaker was a campaign chairman for sam clovis in 2014 in iowa so legal scholars are saying she reducus himself. even more is the commentse's made. so he will approve investigative steps, maybe e an decision to scene thatta the president for a grand jury. and he haseen on record saying this investigation borders on being a witch hundret that going on too long. he even talked about a way that coul starve the money gation by taking from the investigation. emthere was no russian interference. these are things rob mueller is investigating so people are deeply concerned that this is an effort to squash the mueller investigation. el should he not see a reason to recuse hi is there any way or any mechanism that would force aal rec and who or what would be behind that? >>here doeot appear to be. normally in these cases, a prosecuting officialould ask ethics officials for their opinion. do i have a conflict here? and usually people adhere to those. from what we're seeing, he has no intention of recusing himself. he wants to oversee the investigation. >> thank you for coming. and look

interest with the russia probe given his past statements, given his connection, for example, to sam clovis who is a political friend and ally from iowa but happens to be a witness in the mueller probe. the other piece of this, though, people in the justice department don't feel he's qualified for this job, that he simply doesn't have sort of the qualifications and experience to be the attorney general. he's not been before senate confirmation, there's a question out there about the constitutionality of even having them as the acting attorney general given he's not senate confirmed. he was a staffer at the justice department. the third point is, there's infighting at the justice department and there's a sense he was not loyal to jeff sessions when he was jeff sessions' chief of staff. there are bad feelings in the building about that. he had been gunning, for example, for rod rosenstein's job as the deputy attorney general in recent weeks which created a bad atmosphere at the department. >> it will border on the superficial, but that's my intent to talk about that angle of this president. h

aside from his relationship to sam clovis, he's been meeting with people in the west wing. he's been possibly meeting with the president. he's been possibly meeting with white house counsel. he possibly has been giving information to the white house that he has gathered as the assistant, as the chief of staff to the attorney general. and that makes him a witness as well as a potential target for obstruction himself. so he is really conflicted. and he's also conflicted because he is the subject possibly of an investigation about the company he's been on the board of that's been accused of scamming people out of a lot of money. so there's no reason why he shouldn't feel that every word he speaks is being monitored and recorded. and that should inhibit him. but people forget about that. i mean in the same way that nixon forgot he was taping himself and that he should be careful what he was saying in the oval office, he went right ahead and said things like go ahead and pay a million dollars, i know where we could get it. so you do think people forget these things and they just

the president said conflict of interests, and whitaker was campaign manager for sam clovis who is a witnessstigation. >> so he should know something about conflict of interests. >> a little bit. >> we have been asking can the president do this? there's another way to look at this, which is maybe the president thinks he must do this? maybe he thinks robert mueller is getting close to something? we know there has been a tremendous amount of activity about roger stone, and donald trump, jr. has not been contacted in any way. >> the president has had little visibility into what mueller knows and what he has and this move is one way the president will be able to get a better view of what mueller is up to. the president said multiple times saying i could run this investigation if i wanted to and order people fired, and this is a better way to get what kind of evidence there is and all the calls for whitaker to recuse himself, and i don't think it's going to happen because president trump was unhappy with sessions for recusing himself. >> the republican senators that praised mueller at the outset

senate and lost the race, worked on iowa state treasurer campaign of the one and only sam clovis, a person interviewed in the mueller investigation. why would he be the west wing's eyes and years according to "the new york times"? he sees the mueller probe as a lunch mob perhaps. as a cnn commentator said if mueller kept looking into trump's fans finances it would raise serious concerns, a mere witch hunt. >> jeff sessions is replaced with a recess appointment and that attorney general doesn't fire bob mueller but he just reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to a almost a halt. >> the fuller implications, julie ainsley, nbc news national security and justice reporter and natasha bertrand. julia, i can't imagine how this is landing at justice. >> that's a great question, chris. we've called around to a lot of people. there today. there wasn't too much surprise that the attorney general would be out. they knew he was probably short lived there, especially after midterms. it was quite abrupt, you know, less than 24 hours after the results were in last night. there's a lot o

according to friends whitaker talked to at the time, he got a tip from sam clovis. whitaker to get a commentary gig on tv to get trump's attention. later he expressed his deep skepticism for the mueller probe. last year he said this about robert mueller's appointment to special counsel. >> whatever reason rod rosenstein determined that the department of justice couldn't handle this in their ordinary course of work, which i think is ridiculous, i think it smells a little fishy. >> smells a little fishy. whitaker also said this about whether there's an obstruction of justice case to be made against president trump. >> there is no criminal obstruction of justice charge to be had here. the evidence is weak, no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case on what we know right now. it all boils down to what was the president's intent, and we really don't have any evidence of what the president's intent was. >> but legal watchers are also looking pretty closely at whitaker's comments in 2014 when he ran for u.s. senate in iowa. he said "the courts are supposed to be the infer

come in this evening and talk about how many conflicts whitaker has, whether it's representing sam clovisstatements he makes when i look at this through the eyes of a career prosecutor, taking the stance there is no evidence of collusion, he hasn't seen anything. he went embedded in mueller's investigation. so all of those things he should have seen whether he had conflicts and needed to be recused. >> they're not going to recuse this guy. >> we have moved so far beyond that with this vox report that just broke that says according to multiple sources that whitaker is sneaking over, basically two-timing on the department of justice employees, sneaking over to the oval office, advising the president, here is how we can go against your enemies and distract from the mueller investigation. with the president standing up and saying i don't know him, and this report was accurate and he was in the oval office a dozen times and one on one phone calls with the president. at a minimum, whitaker is a witness in the mueller probe, maybe a subject. maybe they're all conspireing. >> you covered everythi

have been ghquestioned, >> he was the chairman of the iowa campaign for treasurer of a man named sam clovis witness,, trump campaign ai interacted with the people interacting with russian agents. >> go ahead. >> now -- >> well what is -- he also made some comments on the air, and it was no big deal. who wouldn't take the meeting? >> said anyone would take the meet bg, meetingween a russian lawyer offering incriminating information on hillary clinton, and the president's son, or then id cae's son, donald trump jr., and most people who worked in campaigns would not take the meeting, but calli.he it's a foreign government saying here's the dirt on your opponent. the acting attorney general said that was legitimate. >> before the vote was called, we heard talk of democrats going for mr. trump's tax records. >> that's >> today in the press conference said, well, you investigate me, i'll investigate you. how do we see that in the view of many, that's seeming like the president threatening to t use justice department as a political weapon. >> deeply concerning threat in light of today's ws, but be

>> the first thing is, should he recuse himself because he's already got ties to a key witness, sam cloviswhat you're now bringing up is, is he even properly appointed? so president trump voted a law which allows him to install a such push itta sufficiently person, what legal scholars across the spectrum, incrui including kellyanne conway's husband, saying that role is a principled officer in the united states. so we are likely to see that is one of several legal challenges to whitaker's existence. >> democrats think it's a problem. we will wait to hear what republicans, and i don't mean president trump, but republicans have to say about it. as you heard hans nichols say, the president helicopter has taken off. we'll bring you his comment his as soon as we have them. up next, truth is stranger than fix. hugh "house of cards," one of his show's stars joins me after the break. break. frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company... what's that mean? not so much. so he turned to his friends at legalzoom. yup! they hooked me up. we helped with his llc, contracts, an

he was the campaign chairman for sam clovis' 2014 bid for state treasurer in iowa.been interviewed by mueller's team, testified before the grand jury. and according to "the washington post," clovis was also lifted as an unnamed campaign supervisor in the indictment of former trump campaign aide george papadopoulos. so as we all know, the president has railed against mueller's investigation from the very beginning, calling it a hoax, a witch hunt 160 times since last spring. trump has even floated the idea of actually firing the special counsel. over a year ago, i asked whitaker whether the president would actually go through with that, and here's what he said. >> i don't. it will be a spectacular -- we will spend a lot of time talking about this if and when he does. but i think this president puts these things out there into the ether of politics to see what the commentators and the rest of the folks think and respond, and then ultimately makes his decisions, i think, based on that feedback. i don't think there's a single person that's heard this today that hasn't b

the past and some things he's written, but also his association with a trump campaign official, sam clovisich seems to be a loose association. if they're so worried about conflicts of interest, how can they possibly say that rod rosenstein is the right man to be heading the justice department? >> right. if they really were worried about conflicts of interest, they would have very serious concerns with rod rosenstein. he's the guy who wrote the memo about firing james comey, and when trump did fire james comey, he immediately set up a special counsel in response to that. he also signed one of the warrants that contained false and misleading information to spy on an affiliate of the trump campaign, and he has obstructed congress as they're investigating what his department is doing. if you want to talk conflicts of interest, rod rosenstein has them in spades if, whereas when the kerr has no -- whitaker has no ties to the mueller probe. people say he's spoke against the mueller probe sort of, but he also spoke in favor of it. he was saying it does have constraints on it, so i think people are

he was the campaign chairman for sam clovis' 2014 bid for state treasurer in iowa.been interviewed by mueller's team, testified before the grand jury. and according to "the washington post," clovis was also lifted as an unnamed campaign supervisor in the indictment of former trump campaign aide george papadopoulos. so as we all know, the president has railed against mueller's investigation from the very beginning, calling it a hoax, a witch hunt 160 times since last spring. trump has even floated the idea of actually firing the special counsel. over a year ago, i asked whitaker whether the president would actually go through with that, and here's what he said. >> i don't. it will be a spectacular -- we will spend a lot of time talking about this if and when he does. but i think this president puts these things out there into the ether of politics to see what the commentators and the rest of the folks think and respond, and then ultimately makes his decisions, i think, based on that feedback. i don't think there's a single person that's heard this today that hasn't b

you know, his ties to sam clovis who is a key witness in the mueller probe. the fact he wrote an op-ed that told the president that he should do everything he could to shut down the, quote, mueller lynch mob. these are all statements that make it clear he cannot possibly oversee this investigation impartially. our position as democrats is this is not a democratic issue. this is not a republican issue. this is an issue of our constitution making sure that nobody is above the law including the president. robert mueller is conducting a special investigation that has produced enormous results already. 33 people who have been indicted. five of trump's top campaign managers. these are people who have already pled guilty. not to small charges but to charges of interfering with the election, charges of obstruction of justice. these are serious charges that mueller has uncovered and we need to make sure to protect the special counsel's investigation. >> how serious will you get to do that? yesterday jerry nadler from new york talked about trying to force the passage o

he has a personal relationship, a political relationship with sam clovis whose campaign he ran. certainly he appears to have a political relationship with the president who has an interest in the outcome of this investigation. so in no way, shape or form should he remain in the case, but it's clear he's going to. in fact, it's increasingly clear that's why he was brought on board. >> so jeremy, i want to ask you. the way in which, or the recusal thing works at the doj, there's no law or even regulation that compels you to go to the ethics folks at justice and say what should i do here? but both legal ethics and political probity normally means if you think you have a conflict you go and say -- ask for recommendation. it appears whitaker is not going to do that. in fact, as joyce just said, the reason he was chosen is precisely because he has these conflicts. how does that recusal question play out as a matter just practically speaking over the days ahead? >> i think you're right. i think the proper thing would be as the chief legal officer of the united states of america for him

sam clovis has come up.y became friends when they ran unsuccessfully when they ran for the gop nomination in iowa senate in 2014. say he gets an opinion from somebody in the ethics office saying you really shouldn't be a part of this. are we going to find out their opinion on that or could whittaker bury that and is there any recourse? >> those ethics opinions are not automatically made public. it's possible that someone in that office could potentially leak such an opinion. it's possible that reporters could acquire any such opinion through a freedom of information act request. the important thing to remember about the way they handle these not so complicated ethical issues is the ethics attorneys don't have veto power over what the political leadership does. the etsichics add viervisers wo able to order him to take a step back. >> i was asked this last night by a group of people and i didn't have a good answer for them. we noticed when ever mueller had an indictment, what we have seen is rod rosenstein go

whitaker is also a close friend and former campaign chairman for sam clovis when clovis ran for public office in iowa in 2014. clovis, who was the 2016 trump campaign national co-chairman, revealed earlier this year that he had been interviewed by mueller and testified for the mueller grand jury. in an interview with cnn last year, matthew whitaker speculated about sessions being replaced and funding to the mueller investigation being withdrawn. whitaker was then the executive director of the foundation of accountability and civic trust, an organization with ties to the conservative billionaire koch brothers. >> i can see a>> i can see a sce jeff sessions is replaced with a recess appointment, and that attorney general does not fire robert mueller, but reduces the budget so low that his investigation grinds to an almost halt. amy: democrats, who won control the house in the midterms, have vowed to protect the mueller investigation. democratic leaders nancy pelosi and chuck schumer both called for whitaker's recusal from the mueller probe. for more on the implications of sessions' depar

sam clovis who served as one of donald trump's cochairman says he is texting with his very good friendle taking part in a recent podcast. he also said that whittaker has been given sole responsibility for mueller's investigation and predicted that the a.g. would do what is right with respect to the russia probe. in his fox news interview yesterday, president trump said he wouldn't stop whittaker from scaling back mueller's probe if he chooses to do so. >> if whittaker decides in any way to limit or curtail the mueller investigation, are you okay with that? >> look, it's going to be up to him. i think he's very well aware politically. he's astute politically. he's a very smart person, a very respected person. i really believe he's going to do what's right. >> the lawmaker expected to be the chair of the house intel committee says they're prepared to challenge matt wihittaker's appointment. >> it's a flawed appointment, but the biggest flaw from my point of view is that he was chosen for the purpose of interfering with the mueller investigation. he auditioned for the part by going on tv

he's close friends with sam clovis, someone we know because he's been interviewed by robert mueller's grand jury. he's migrated to trump's wing of the party and is known for taking a tough line on the mueller probe and now he's running the department of justice. >> joyce, i have so many questions for you. as a former u.s. attorney, would this have been an organic choice, if you searched through the government payroll, to name this guy in normal times, as acting attorney general, first of all? >> if we were only talking about just generic roles. the attorney general's chief of staff wouldn't be a completely unprecedented choice to take over, if you anticipated as president, naming another permanent selection in the not-too-distant future. but what takes this out of the realm of the normal, brian, are matt whitaker's clear stands, clear enunciation of his view that the mueller investigation should be limited. that makes this extremely abnormal and something we should all be concerned about. >> now, that's my second question. is that grounds for recusal? if you have issued an opinion, ma

whitaker should -- look, we know that sam clovis who was a witness in the mueller investigation in the papadopoulos indictment has actually -- that he not only -- he said not only is he a close friend, but that there's -- that he told mr. whitaker to become a pundit in order to be seen and noticed by president trump for a position in the administration. there's simply tons of information out there that suggested he has absolutely no ethical ability to sit in this position and that's exactly the point. that goes back to the question of whether republicans in congress will make it clear that there's a bright line. they did that with robert mueller. they did it originally with jeff sessions then backed off and said, after the midterms. that's a real problem. >> clint, there's a new "the daily beast" article and it reports that officials at the doj now see they're new attorney general interim or otherwise as quote rogue and underqualified. as a former fbi special agent, what's the effect of that? how does this play out? >> its hard to say. what we don't know is that -- whitaker has been in

his prejudging and also the relationship he has with sam clovis. he was a key witness in the george papadopoulos part of the investigation. >> and papadopoulos pled guilty. i know you said you want congress to pass a bill to protect mueller. the republicans showed no sign of having any interest in that even after the democrats assumed power in the house, they're still going to control the senate. >> mitch mcconnell has shown no sign of having interest, but bipartisan republicans like chuck grassly and others in the senate passed legislation to protect mueller. mcconnell is subverting the will of the majority. democrats are telling republicans in the house if you want us to give you votes because you've never been able to get the votes on your own, you're going to need to put protect mueller language in that. they've not been able to pass a budget without democratic votes, and this time we're going to say the cost of that is going to be to protect the rule of law and protect mueller. >> a lot to talk about, a lot of people with views on it. it almos

he also has a relationship with sam clovis who is essentially someone who has been talking to the mueller investigation. >> on the comments, do you see anything directly disqualifying from his public statements or could he argue, i was providing an analysis on the law, something both of you are doing. if you go back into government service, you both serve. you say now i have a new obligation. >> here's the point, it's the ethics code, it's the appearance of impropriety. it's not whether, in fact. you have a direct influence, whether it goes to a campaign that essentially prevailed and has -- and the president has -- is not the president of the united states the question becomes, does it create the appearance that any of the decisions that whitaker would make are being made for inappropriate reasons? it's actually important to our system that we not have the appearance of the fox guarden the henhouse. >> michael steel, i'd say nick ackerman puts it the about a ten saying this guy shouldn't be on the jury, mia i'm hearing are about an 8. where are you? >> i'm about a 9. i think for the inte

sam clovis brought on to the campaign both george papadopoulos, and carter page, who is the subject of a secret intelligence warrant over his russian contacts and his contacts with russian spies. clovis has been interviewed the special counsel. the special counsel's grand jury, and by congressional committees in the russia investigation, and he and matt whitaker are, quote, dear friends. whitaker chaired one of clovis' political campaigns in iowa. clovis says he discussed all kinds of work he did for the trump campaign with matt whitaker. he says during the trump campaign, matt whitaker was his sounding board. to the extent he is an important part of the mueller investigation because of his role in the trump campaign, how can matt whitaker oversee the mueller investigation? well, now the ranking democrat on senate intelligence is sounding the alarm about that. so this is not a theoretical thing. matt whitaker is in there now as the country's top law enforcement official. this is a live issue, right? i mean, last night robert mueller's prosecutors announced they're going to make -- that

think in light of the statements that we've heard from matt whitaker and his relationship with sam clovis least a witness in this case, there is that question about his impartiality. but i have to think that president trump looked into these issues before he ever put matt whitaker in this position. because, of course, the thing that made him so crazy about attorney general jeff sessions was that he was recused from the mueller investigation. i can't imagine he would put in place anyone that he thought would also likely be recused. >> you would think, but -- barbara mcquade, we always appreciate your analysis. barbara mcquade is a former federal prosecutor and an msnbc contributor. former u.s. attorney. >>> supreme court justice ruth bader jiginsburg is in the hospital with three fractured ribs after falling in her office last night. the court records say she went home after the fall and after experiencing discomfort, went to george washington university hospital this morning, where doctors admitted her for observation and treatment. the 85-year-old justice has survived cancer twice, colon

former trump adviser sam clovis who has testified before the mueller grand jury. and now, democrats as well as several legal experts say questions about whitaker's impartiality should bar him from overseeing the investigation of the president. however, according to "the washington post," whitaker has no intention of recusing himself from overseeing the special counsel probe, according to people close to him who added they do not believe he would approve any subpoena, catch this, of president trump as part of that investigation. he would be against any subpoena of the president. the question tonight is will the president get away with all this. i'm joined by former congresswoman elizabeth holtzman and author of a new book "the case for impeaching trump." bret stephens is a columnist with "the new york times." robert costa is a national political reporter with "the washington post," and betsy woodruff broke that story for the "badaily beast." what do you have on this guy, whitaker? it seems like he's been auditioning is a pretty good work for it, auditioning for the

past comments on the mueller probe and his close relationship with former trump campaign official sam clovis has testified before a federal grand jury as part of the probe. amy: questions are also being raised about whitaker's past including his role at company called world patent marketing. last year, the federal trade commission shut down the company after a number of inventors, including military veterans, said the company cheated them out of their life savings. as acting attorney general, whitaker will oversee the fbi, which is still investigating the company. whitaker is also facing criticism for his remarks about the role of the judiciary. he is on record saying the supreme court wrongly decided the landmark 1803 case marbury v. madison, which gave courts the power to strike down unconstitutional law. we go now to washington, d.c., where we're joined by ian millhiser, a senior fellow at the center for american progress action fund and the editor of thinkprogress justice. his recent piece on whitaker is headlined, "this 2014 interview of trump's acting attorney general is beyond belief.

will be a little gray area based on public statements and the fact he has close association with sam clovis. rod rosenstein is one of those that can tell the ethics officials whether clovis is an important part of this investigation. rod rosenstein may still have a card yet to play. but with chris christie, it would be black and white. under the same doj regulations that caused sessions to have to recuse himself. he had a role on the campaign that was -- that is now under investigation. it would be just as clear that chris christie would have to recuse himself as well, if he was nominated and eventually confirmed as attorney general. >> harry litman, chris christie, his body of public statements about mueller compared to matt whitaker's body of statements about mueller puts him far more sort of -- i don't know if there's a center anymore in politics but he has not called for mueller to be fired. he's not ever called the mueller probe a witch hunt. he was very critical of pete strzok who sent anti-trump texts. but he's never criticized the probe as an effort, as an endeavor. do you think tha

also once worked for sam clovis, the trump campaign ad who testified before mueller's grand jury. he managed clovis's 2014 campaign for iowa treasurer. taking all of that into account, should whitaker need to recuse himself from the russia probe? >> taking all of that into account i think the first step that should be undertaken by the department of justice is whitaker should be made to interview with the ethics officers who do this exact thing. they decide whether potential conflicts of interest require recusal. so that should be the first step, and you know, it's hard to say in a vacuum. i will say when we see the reporting about some of the things whitaker said on cnn, some of the things he re-tweeted, and that was not as sort of a paid lawyer taking a position. that seems to be his own personal belief about the nature of the mueller investigation. and let's just say, he doesn't think highly of it. i think there are serious conversations that will have to take place with ethics officers at the department of justice, you know, as federal prosecutors, we do conflicts checks all t