so i had a telephone interview with sam garrison, running the republican side of the staff, not yet fully unified. some thought it never was. i went down, met with sam, had a good interview with him. and i was engaged to come in quite shortly thereafter and reported for duty in december 1973. >> tell us a little bit about -- first of all, about sam garrison. give us a word picture of him, please. >> he was a devoted family man. i think from the south. from richmond. and he worked like a tiger. slept in on sunday mornings but that was about it. he and i had a good personal relationship. >> you were there before john dohr was named. >> i'm sure i was there before bert jenner. maybe it was before dohr. i remember showing up for work, and if i was the first staffer, hilary rodham from yale law school was the second staffer, and i remember john dohr calling us into his office, bill, hillary, we have a research project here. we have to find out what constitutes grounds for impeachment of a president. and there doesn't seem to be any case directly on point. so let's see. it's friday afternoon. i

. >> sam garrison's office, was it close to yours? >> yeah, yeah. we were all -- we worked out of the congressional hotel. it was a very small space. we were constantly together. garrison was a good advocate. you know, for i don't believe he's still alive. he died. he was not old. he was no older than i was at the time. you should really -- well, you did track down some of them. bill weld i guess. but you should try to track down some of those republican staff members and see. in the end we were mostly on the same page. which is an amazing feat. i know it was important at the time but i didn't understand how important. in this day and age impossible. i think it's impossible. >> what changed? >> the enormous partisanship. it even was when bill clinton was in the white house. when i was council to the president. it became worse and worse. there is no middle. there is no moderate republicans, moderate democrats but no moderate republicans. and the notion of people coming together to make a joint decision. that's why the country has all of the problems i

struck some pretty rich oil pools all-around there in garrison kitty, cromwell, seminole, sam springs, spring hill, all up and down the whole country they have oil. pretty nice old fields. >> any of the oil coming your family? >> no, we got the grease. we turn now to go coffman. kaufman is a professor of american literature and culture at the university of like richest third in central england. i interviewed kaufman recently and ask him to talk about woody guthrie's childhood. >> he was born in okey mike, oklahoma in 1912. he was born into a middle-class fairly light ring family. his father was a small-town politician, a real-estate agent, support of the ku klux klan. >> some say he was a klansman. >> there is no documentary evidence to from the support that he was, but no doubt he supported them. there is some anecdotal evidence that he sometimes wrote out with them on their adventures and may have participated in a lynching. that affected woody years later. there is no indication that woody was particularly all the political growing up. and after a number of family tragedies, like t