discuss this issue further are san francisco immigration judge dana marks, president of the national association of immigration judges. debra saunders, san francisco ch chronicle conservative and editor. ian, we just heard from darrell stein burg but today president obama told the leaders of the three central american countries that most of the children crossing the boarder will not be allowed to stay. do you think that that message is likely to stem the tide of unaccompanied minors? >> i don't. think the obama administration is trying to do what they can by putting adds for example on television in central america and producing music to play on the radio anti migration, you know, have an anti migration message but i think these tactics really don't work. if we're thinking about this as a humanitarian issue, kids aren't going to be dissuaded by that and families aren't, either. >> debra, is it a humanitarian issue? are children fleeing violence and crime and poverty or are they here for family reunfa case? >> i think both. we know there are a number of children that are afraid they will be killed and they are coming for refuge and that's something this country