>>> we have a decon, sandovol. he works at the cathedral. we'll'll talk about his other job in a little bit, too. welcome, both of you. i would like to start by, by saying, i'm so glad that barbara, you're wearing bright, wonderful holiday clothes. thank you! >> you're welcome. >> that changes the atmosphere in here immensely. >> how did you get to be involved in this kind of ministry? how did you do that, barbara? >> i kind of fell into it. it evolved here in the late 80s. it was at a time when i was finishing up with a master's program in mental health, as well as a little far enough from my own experience with cancer and i wanted to move into the field. it was very personal to me. i was a teacher before that. it seemed kind of a fit that i would take my teaching skills and learning skills and use them in a different field. >> now, did you have to get a special degree or use your mental health degree? >> i used that with a track connected to grief care. >> how did you get involved in this? how did you become a deacon. a lot of people don't