sanjay, great to see you. thank you. that does for it tonight. and "cnn tonight" starts now. >> thank you. both of you. please stick around. we have a lot to talk about. breaking news, nina pham being rushed to national health center in bethesda maryland. she spoke earlier today in00er dallas hospital room and asked for the individually to be shared. >> party, party in maryland. >> okay. >> do you need anything? okay. >> meanwhile -- they are happy tears right there. >> meanwhile the other nurse with ebola, amber vincent is being treated at emory hospital in atlanta. i will talk exclusively to her uncle who spoke with her today. we'll get the very latest from him. also, for the third day in a row, president barack obama speaking on ebola and opening the door to the idea of pointing an ebola czar. >> it may be appropriate for me to appoint an additional person, not because the three of these folks have not been doing an outstanding job. i should mention susan rice, my national security advise

sanjay gupta.the first question here. is it possible that ebola can live on seats, interior door handles, compactionities? can ebola be on stuff that comes in contact with people who have it? >> reporter: this seems like one of the most common questions. i think the best way to sort of answer this is it can live outside the body, first of all, and it can live on surfaces, talking about the ebola virus. i've heard even up to a few days. sun lied, obviously cleaning the surface, that will help devakt vaet the virus. i think people are trying figure out can i subsequently get it, if i go touch that same surface, can i get it? the answer is theoretically yes. we've talked to several experts in this area, scientists who study this virus and they say the virus does change it a little bit being out of the body, on a surface, so it's less likely to infect. theoretically you could get an infection that way, but very, very low likelihood. the way it most typically is transmitted is direct bodily fluid contac

sanjay gupta.ll, i spoke to a number of nurses and instead of the regular cdc precautions, they went up and above. they said, we want the suits. we want the suits. what do you think in terms of the nurses? are they in a position to be ready to properly handle ebola if it should come to their hospital? >> well, nurses are on the front lines 24/7 and we are sounding the alarm because the majority of nurses are reporting to us that they have not seen hospital emission policies. that they have not been able -- they've received no education and/or training in terms of active training and education on how to deal with the patients from triage throughout their hospital stay. we're sounding the alarm. we know that we can do better in the u.s. hospitals but unfortunately it's a fragmented disparate response. >> the nurse apparently knew that the patient was from liberia, and then the system crashed. don't they have to ask questions repetitively? it's not good enough to say, i asked the question. why didn't

sanjay's story is fascinating. 1600 years back sanjay has been able to trace his family back.incredible story, incredible journey, stick around for that. we'll be right back in a moment. ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female announcer ] fiber one. ♪ ♪ i finally found want to change the world? create things that help people. design safer cars. faster computers. smarter grids and smarter phones. think up new ways to produce energy. ♪ be an engineer. solve problems the world needs solved. what are you waiting for? changing the world is part of the job description. [ male announcer ] join the scientists and engineers of exxonmobil in inspiring america's future engineers. energy lives here. . . >>> welcome back. all this week here on cnn we are exploring our roots. a look at my family history earlier this week i you missed it. check it out at ac 360.com. tonight, our friend, correspondent, dr. gupta shares his journey into his family's past. how far back he went is remarkable. take a look. ♪ ♪ >> reporter: what are y

sanjay gupta and jim acosta. it sounds like the president was upbeat, overly optimistic about the readiness of the united states to deal with ebola. >> yep. i think that's right. wolf, i think it reflected what i think a lot of people were saying including the leaders at the cdc and even within the nih, and so it sort of -- they all had a similar message that it was an unlikely thing to occur a patient would come here with ebola although they thought it could occur, thought it was unlikely. that has happened. they talked about flight crews would be informed and trained to recognize someone who is sick with ebola, laboratories would be increased in their capacity to test for ebola and i think most importantly, and to this discussion that hospitals would be prepared to be able to take care of patients once they were diagnosed with ebola. so all those things that he talked about back on september 16th have now been tested, wolf, and just once, you know, this dallas hospital and so far track record has not been very

sanjay gupta. sanjay, up till now, most of us were under the understanding that it wasn't necessarily a lethal virus, that you could beat this. and now we're hearing about a child dying. >> yeah, i think that was the general sort of thinking about this and we obviously have been talking more recently about the fact that this particular virus was people associated with developing weaknesses and even paralysis in some of the limbs. one of the things to keep in mind when you think about this sort of thing is that a child who -- this is a sad, tragic story -- but a child with enterovirus 68, you want to know a lot of things about this child. were there other infections? was the child sick in some other way? we know people who have weakened immune systems are going to be less likely to do well from this sort of infection? some of those details are still coming in from -- i read the same report from rhode island that you did. but we talk about ebola and all these different sort of pathogens. you keep in

sanjay gupta. first to you, sanjay, should other passengers be concerned, considering how much information we've been getting about when you are contagious, when you show symptoms and when you're around other people? break it down for me. >> they're going to be concerned because they got a thing saying they should call the cdc. obviously that's going to raise their concerns understandably. your point is the important one, though, ashleigh. you really don't transmit this virus, spread it until you are sick yourself. and it sounds like from what we're hearing, if she's being completely honest, that she was not sick until she got back into dallas, developed a fever and 90 minutes later was in isolation. i'm curious what the cdc is going to say to these passengers when they get the call. my guess is they'll say, look, there was a passenger who was subsequently diagnosed with ebola on your plane. we think your risk is very, very low. but you should take your temperature yourself for 21 days. you don't n

sanjay, stay with us.ver to michaela to continue the conversation. >> we're going to bring in the director of the national center for disaster preparedness at columbia university here in new york city. doctor, thank you so much for joining us, it's good to have both of you with us in fact. i want to talk to you, given your role as the director for national center for disaster preparedness, you say it's inevitable we're going to see more cases, we know there's a potential for case in hawaii. we've seen what happened in dallas. tell us why, how big you think it could be. >> the reality is of course there are many, many people living here who are from countries in west africa where this disease is really has emerged in full force. so there's an inevitable amount of travel back and forth between the united states and those countries in africa. it's part of commerce, it's part of people visiting family members, it's absolutely for certain that there's going to be a lot of travel that we cannot stop and should n

sanjay gupta thank you for that sanjay. >>> severe criticism for the head of the secret service for twoeaches of presidential security. secret service director julia pierson was grilled on capitol hill at a congressional hearing. it was rough. only hours later, there was yet another new breach coming to light. senior white house correspondent joe johns has more on this all from the white house. >> john and christine, the secret service confirms that it is investigating a report from two weeks ago that a man with a gun who was a contractor got on to an elevator with the president of the united states at the centers for disease control in atlanta. congressman jason chaffetz of utah said he was told about the situation by one of his whistle-blowers. this information came out on the same day that the director of the secret service was taken to task by members of both parties for a recent incident when a man jumped a fence at the white house and made it all the way inside, before he was tackled by officers. the director julia pierson saying it's peer that our security plan was not properly e

sanjay gupta, emory, university. of the mount sinai health system in new york city. sanjay, one of our viewers, madeline posted on facebook, what happens when a sick person goes to emergency and diagnosed with ebola, entering the elevator, talking to nurses on check-in, all the people are exposed. how is that taken carry of for walk-ins, the protocol? >> well it is a very good question. and it's not going to be a, completely precise answer. here's how things should work. if there is a suspicion, so based on travel history, symptoms, based on the things, sus pe suspicion some one has ebola. the first step, some one should be put in isolation. you might away want to mitigate, minimize, the number of people the person comes in contact with. can't make that zer roiero. some one is going to evaluate, take a history all of that. reduce it as much as possible. as you know doesn't sound look that is what happened in the case of mr. duncan the after the suspicion was raise add but him. he was in another room with some seven p

and sanjay, stand by one second here. i just want to update our viewers. >>> you are watching now our breaking -- >> this is "cnn breaking news." >> welcome back, everyone. i am don lemon. top of the hour. you are looking live at frederick municipal airport in maryland, where nina pham's plane landed. 11:00 on the east coast. cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. want to go become to dr. sanjay gupta helping us on the hours of cnn. at emory hospital. where amber vinson is being treated. a health care worker from dallas. transported from dallas to atlanta last evening. now we are witnessing another health care worker from dallas transported from dallas to maryland and is on her way by ambulance. very shortly. just got in. national institutes of health. and held in isolation there. also, brian todd is in bethesda, maryland, nina pham's plane has landed. and she is on the way to an isolation unit at the national institutes of health as we reported. that's where brian todd is. so, dr. gupta, we are getting wa too much experience. we ki

sanjay gupta. also joining us, senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen. i think we should begin with the second health care worker for folks just waking up to learn this news about the second nurse testing positive for ebola among the people that cared for thomas eric duncan. how did this all happen? what was the chain of events they found out she was sick? did she present and say "okay, guys, things are serious now"? >> they haven't explained to us whether she took her own temperature and saw it was elevate word will it was during one of these visits that she and her colleagues have been getting from health officials that they took the temperature and figured it out. the bottom line is they caught it very early on and that's really crucial so there was very little time for her to get -- for her to infect someone else. >> sanjay, i think a lot of people are looking at this with alarm right now because when thomas eric duncan was finally diagnosed with ebola after being sent home, we should say

sanjay gupta. joe johns, david gergen, sanjay gupta and, again, celine gounder. let's talk about what this means from a medical perspective. sanjay, we'll start with you and your reaction first of all to this announcement. >> as jake mentioned, we've been talking about the idea that somebody who could sort of work at the executive level of government but not always through formal channels to get things done with regard to ebola, maybe a person like that would be necessary as we've brought in this notion of airline travel and other things and, you know, it seems like much more than a local health issue and it's consumed attention of many people within the government. ron klain, interestingly enough, has done a lot of things. people may also remember him -- i don't know if jake said this -- but he was involved with the recount back in 2000. in fact was part of that. his character was portray bid kevin spacey in the movie "recount." but he's been around for a long time. he was involved with the company that primarily worked on health, revolution health, steve case's

let me bring in sanjay. he has a question for you. >> doctor, this is sanjay gupta. and we are hearing even at the time she got on the plane from cleveland to dallas, she may have had more symptoms than a 99.5 temperature. i want to know if you can confirm that and what the other symptoms are. and also given that you are a public health medical director for your area, what do you think about the fact that this nurse, amber vin son, who had just been taking care of a patient with ebola, had flown to cleveland, and if you had been asked, would you allow a patient to get on a commercial airline flight. >> i think one of the things, you looking at the guidance we had before, and the cut-off for the temperature and initially it was 101.5. they put it down to 100.4 and her temperature was even below that. and we know that people can run a low -- a 99.5 and some people may actually not be far from normal. so i think that just looking at the compilation of a number of rei interviews with her that had a higher suspicion that maybe we ought to move backwards. as we all know wi

thanks. >> back with our panel, sanjay gupta, what did you make of that?bing the waste in her apartment, how can health officials have left it that way? >> you know, i hate to keep talking about missteps with this whole situation. but it is another one here. you have the situation where this guy was clearly very sick. it is essentially almost active like a hospital room, this bedroom where he was staying. and you know, we know ebola as a virus can live outside the body. so the fact these sheets, towels can be contaminated. they were not cleaned. she had no instruction what to do with it. in the hospital where patients are treated, emory, biocontainment bags would have been brought in here, and they would have been incinerated. but just the lack of humanity with it overall, she is already dealing with the sickness of mr. duncan, it is hard to imagine. >> yeah, doctor, i am not in any way blaming louise here with this. she is coping as best as she can. does it surprise you that somebody is not coming in, telling her what to do with the dirty clothes, the she

sanjay, stand by.tting more information constantly on what's going on in dallas, texas. we're also learning new details about the patient, thomas eric duncan. duncan's half brother wilfred smallwood doesn't believe duncan knew he had ebola when he left liberia. mr. smallwood joining us from phoenix. thanks very much for joining us. first of all, have you been in direct touch with your half brother and if you have, what are you hearing? how is he doing? >> well, as far as we're concerned, family, after the news of him betting ebola and then taking to the hospital, we have called the hospital and they will not allow us to talk to him at the hospital. >> what can you tell us about his condition some what have you heard about that? >> well, as far as i'm concerned, they say he has ebola. but we have not been able to talk to him. only the kids and his wife, his woman. >> he came to dallas to see his girlfriend, not legally married, but you and he, what, you have the same mother is that right? >> eric is my

sanjay gupta. so dr. gupta, tell us what you learned about her temperature, her elevated temperature and who she called before the flight. >> yes, we know she flew from dallas to cleveland on the 10th and was going to fly back from cleveland to dallas on the 13th. she was self-monitoring, taking her own temperature, we know her temperature was 99.5. and it sounds like she did the right thing at that point which was to call somebody at the cdc. my understanding, we confirmed it with government officials. she made that call, told them what the temperature was, told them she was going to get on the flight and was given for guidance, that that flight was a no-no. and that is why she did get on the flight and fly back to dallas, again anderson with the temperature of 99.5. little bit of context, you and i talked about this. with an elevated temperature like that and this history of recently having taken care of a patient with ebola, had she been in west africa she would have been flagged for secondary screenin

sanjay gupta throughout the day. them to us at cnn using the hashtag "ebolaqanda" and sanjay will get to as many questions as possible. i'll be right back. looks like we're about to board. mm-hmm. i'm just comparing car insurance rates at progressive.com. is that where they show the other guys' rates, too? mm-hmm. cool. yeah. hi. final boarding call for flight 294. [ bells ring on sign ] [ vehicle beeping ] who's ready for the garlic festival? this guy! bringing our competitors' rates to you -- now, that's progressive. ♪ want to change the world? create things that help people. design safer cars. faster computers. smarter grids and smarter phones. think up new ways to produce energy. ♪ be an engineer. solve problems the world needs solved. what are you waiting for? changing the world is part of the job description. [ male announcer ] join the scientists and engineers of exxonmobil in inspiring america's future engineers. energy lives here. >>> tracy morgan is firing back against walmart after the shopping giant argue

sanjay gupta. quite a series of developments overnight, sanjay. >> no question, the cameraman working for nbc, his name is ashoka mukpo, 33 years old, working on projects in liberia for the last three years, this past tuesday he started working for nbc. the next day he started having some, started feeling not well, some aches, he got his temperature taken and it was a little bit elevated. that prompted this whole testing, testing came back and now they're en route back to the united states. mukbo and the entire nbc team. the rest of the team appears healthy and they'll be checked out when they get here as well. as for mr. duncan, he's where he needs to be, in the hospital, still in serious but stable condition. and members of his family and friends are in quarantine, also where they need to be. but i will tell you, none of this came too easily. health officials now looking at 100 people in the dallas area who may have had contact with thomas eric duncan. >> there could be additional cases who are a

so stay with me, sanjay. i didn't mean to cut you off but we want to get to this other angle here that has to do with the nurses who were there, where thomas eric duncan died and some of their representatives of the nurses union are speaking out, what they are saying is shocking. >> hospital officials allowed nurses who interacted with mr. duncan to then continue normal patient care duties, taking care of other patients, even though they had not had the proper personal protective equipment while providing care for mr. duncan. >> you will hear much more from these nurses straight ahead. great rates and safety working in harmony. open an optimizer plus account from synchrony bank. service. security. savings. synchrony bank engage with us. when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp suppo

sanjay gupta still with us. mary, let me start with you, what about these, so many people have said is it time to stop flights coming out of west africa? what's the answer? >> so, question it is. the reason, there are myriad reasons. so many disconnect statements. so many statements that make no sen sense. we should focus on four things. an airplane its not ambulance cannot be disinfected with bleach. it is a $350 computer. the passengers at risk. if some one, checks a back with ebola on it. it ricks, baggage handlers, on that end. risks them here. three, the tsa and border agents, are not doctors cannot properly assess the people. making them do that puts them at risk. four, our own cdc, has a bit of schizophrenia going on. there is no danger to the passengers. but if you think there has been an ebola patient on your plane, the cdc put out today to clean the plane you have to wear a moon suit, face mask. even the cdc doesn't know what the danger its. >> that does sound schizophrenic. united airline has been cal

sanjay gupta is standing by with answers to those questions. sanjay, let me begin. got news that this patient, thomas duncan, when he was still living in liberia, he was in contact with ebola patients during that stay there including one individual who had ebola who he was helping take care of yet still he was able to get on a flight and come to the u.s. your reaction? >> well, you know, there's some details that need to be filled in there obviously. i heard some of those same reports as well. i guess one of the big questions is did he know that the patient that he was helping had ebola? because what i can tell you if things went right at the airport, he would have been asked about that. one of the questions you get asked is your recent exposure to ebola patients. we don't know what he knew for sure. i think we need to wait more and fill in details and they may be forthcoming. what you're trying to do if you can confirm that someone had an exposure even if they don't have a fever and they look healthy, if there's been a confirmed exposure like the one that has been

sanjay gupta joins me now. good morning, sanjay. we keep hearing you can't get this virus because it's not airborne, you can't get it through the air yet this photographer contracted ebola somehow in west africa. >> i was e-mailing with dr. nancy snyderman who is the correspondent for nbc news, he was working with her. she says i'm not sure how he got it exactly. keep in mind he just started working with nbc on tuesday and then started to feel unwell the next day, and had that fever. that's what prompted the examination, but he had been in liberia for some time already before that so it's unclear at some point what the exposure was. dr. snyderman, nancy talked a little bit more about what's going to happen over the next few days for him but also for the team because there was a whole team of people that were working with him. take a look. >> once he became symptomatic we only spent a few hours ago. we were working in a work space when he told me he wasn't feeling well. he joined us 72 hours earlier as an independent journalist and h

sanjay gupta about that. first, we're looking at people experiencing a particular kind of ebola simple tom. symptom. this causes them to behave in ways that experts on the virus say just doesn't make any sense to them. it leads to public confusion, unnecessary fear, possibly delays containment of the virus in africa, ending sadly with the mandatory quarantine. not their own. others. including one man you will hear about in a moment, his case is remarkable. the one who is already famous. the famous one is kaci hickox. despite showing no signs of ebola, she was taken to isolation and was supposed to live there for three weeks. complete with porta-potty. ms. hickox wquarantined because new jersey governor chris christie and new york governor andrew cuomo decided to impose a 21-day quarantine on anybody returning from an ebola-stricken country. yesterday, they were forced to backtrack on the rules and ms. hickox was allowed to leave the tent, however, she still is required to quarantine herself at home in maine f

sanjay gupta. so sanjay, obviously, you're joining us on the phone.s will be a big deal, a big test case for new york city. it seems like the doctor, as soon as he noticed any symptoms telephoned authorities. and it all seems to have been handled as authorities would have liked from the moment that authorities and ambulance first showed up to bring him to bellevue hospital? >> it certainly sounds like that, anderson. and as elizabeth said, i think this is almost certainly going to be a positive test to be confirmed shortly by the cdc. but he did the thing that you're supposed to do. which is it sounds like when he saw symptoms to go ahead and call the authorities. was rushed to bellevue hospital. my understanding he is in place in the isolation unit. that is the crucial point even before tests come back positive. you want to treat the person as -- in isolation to make sure they can't potentially infect other people. it is important to note, you and i discussed, really that somebody does not transmit the virus until they become sick, as well. and i thi

sanjay gupta once again and dr. van telican.ee the support that these health care workers are showing this nurse nina pham. we have been told her most recent condition was described as improving, right? >> that's correct. we know that she has been ill, but she had been improving and that was obviously a good sign. in fact, because of that, we thought she might be staying there in dallas. but now obviously moving to the nih. in part, i will tell you i talked to some hospital sources down there today, wolf. the way they described it, they sort of need to hit the reset button. they said we have many patients, many workers who are being monitored unable toome to work. they have not been taking new patients into the hospital. keep in mind, up to this monday, you still have an incubation period going on in some of the original duncan contacts, as well. >> you see the ambulance, sanjay. there's going to be a police escort taking nina pham from the hospital over to the dallas love field where she will board a private small jet to take h

sanjay gupta, and also dr. seema yasmin, sanjay, let me start with you.have actually learned things from treating amber vinson and others? >> yes, it is very fascinating. still a small number of patients, so in order to say you learned things you want to learn from other patients. but one thing that sticks out, how aggressive is ebola? one doctor said we don't know if it is worth it to put somebody on dialysis, and could it put the health care workers at risk? the doctor said he would recommend it. it is a different way of looking at and treating ebola. >> also, amber vinson seemed to recover quickly, they believe she probably got exposed to a small amount? >> there are all sorts of theories. one is, you get diagnosed earlier and treated earlier. >> i always thought even a tiny amount of ebola is devastating. >> here is the way it is, if it is a small amount and replicates and is unchecked. in her case, she got a blood transfusion from somebody who had antibodies. could that come in her system and keep her from getting more sick and prolonging her illness

sanjay gupta, and dr. seema yasmin. sanjay, this word that the u.s. government wants to get more zmapp produced as soon as possible, i mean, it can take up to a few months to produce even one dose. so producing large quantities in a hurry seems like a very difficult task to say the least. >> yeah, it can take several weeks, maybe even several months to produce it, when you do produce it you will get more than a single dose. you will get several doses but the time period is of a critical nature. you also want to get it as fast as possible. a couple of points to make, right now there is an all-call out to see if there is another way to make it faster. the way you see the images there, they use the tobacco mosaic plant where they essentially cause the plant to make the relative protein. i don't want to get too much in the weeds here but basically you make that plant to scale up the production of the drug. once that starts to work you can make more and more of it. there may be other ways or other drugs besides the zmapp as well to try to scale up producti

sanjay, what did you learn on this call? the organization claiming happened in this hospital? >> they are making pretty surprising claims as you mentioned, anonymous nurses in the hospital that don't wish to go identified. but some of these things so important with regard to possible infections. they say mr. duncan was left for several hours not in isolation, but in other areas where other patients were president, even after a supervisor demanded he was put in isolation saying it was met with concern from authorities. we typically, when we say there is a concern about infectious diseases, they're sent to a tube system, where the entire system there could potentially be contaminated. this one really was quite surprising to me, apparently nurses expressed concern about the fact that their necks were not covered taking care of a patient with ebola. they were told to wrap medical tape around their necks as an alternative. i mean, it is really outrageous, medical tape is incredibly -- >> have you ever heard of that? >> i have nev

sanjay gupta said.o magic potion in the way of a medicine that you can give an ebola patient. so they have to treat nina pham's symptoms here. that means she's going to be receiving fluids, potassium, antibiotics. the key question is, can she fully recover? dr. fauci addressed that, as well. >> when you say recoverable, in the sense of recovering, absolutely. we fully intend to have this patient walk out of this hospital, and will do everything we can to make that happen. >> reporter: while they take care of nina pham, they're also taking care of the care givers who are attending to her. that's a critical component of this, wolf. they're monitoring these people 24-7. each doctor and nurse is wearing a haz/mat suit. the air in her room will never circulate. they are working with the buddy system. that means each nurse and doctor is monitored by a buddy when they go into a room they are monitored. they're watched when they undress from their isolation gowns. it is strictly monitored here, wolf, because th

sanjay gupta. >> dr.hen you woke up and heard our breaking news that there's another patient who has been diagnosed with ebola in texas, what did you think in. >> well, it's extremely disappointing and sad that this individual got infected. it didn't surprise me, because it was very clear that the conditions that led to the infection of nina pham clearly were the conditions in which this person was exposed. so i was not surprised. i was saddened and disturbed. so clearly there was something that went on in that setting, that did not totally protect those health care workers. and that's something that has got to be changed and that's the reason why the cdc has sent their team down there, to try and find out what went wrong and to make sure that doesn't ever happen again. and that hospital or any place else. >> dr. fauci, it sounds like there were many things that went wrong in texas. this morning, the thursdays are going public with the conditions. let me read to you their list of things that worried them.

sanjay gupta, and dr. irwin, at columbia university, and author of many books -- sanjay, thomas duncan's visit to the hospital, you heard her describe how clear it was when he arrived at the hospital. the person asked for a social security number, she explained he didn't have one because he was from liberia. by her account, the hospital didn't understand, they just didn't seem to consider that this could be ebola. >> yes, i think you're absolutely right. and you know we've heard that same sort of thing from the hospital as well. that judge with her version of events, at first you remember anderson, we couldn't quite figure out what happened here. and we heard the hospital had not asked and mr. duncan had not disconclusi disclosed he was from liberia. that is not true, because one representative said we were told he was from liberia, and the team, that got misdirected. that is a miss, low-hanging fruit, you should be able to address these things if you adequately take care of patients with infectious diseas

i agree with sanjay.abeth cohen made the important point that there's one organization in the world that has looked after a significant number of ebola cases and that's doctors without borders. 2,000 cases, two hospital workers infected. so we know this can be done and i think sanjay has made the point all morning, this is bread-and-butter stuff, this isn't high-tech medicine. we're not asking people to do anything complicated. i think blaming the nurses is absolutely wrong. but what we're seeing is a failure of leadership at a high level to deliver the relevant protocols and that isn't just personal protective gear, although i think the failure of protocols is very representative. that starts with every single patient at every single hospital. what requests do you ask? have you taken the travel history through to following up all the contacts? again, we're seeing massive weaknesses there. we've got exposed people. we should have been taking serial blood samples on nina pham and the other exposed. we have

sanjay gupta is joining the conversation.ay, your reaction to this second case and it being transmitted from thomas eric duncan not to one of the four people under quarantine, but a health care worker at this hospital. >> it represents the first time, as you have been talking about, that ebola has now spread from person to person in the united states. that's what we've been talking about in spain over the last several days. there's going to be a lot of questions and hopefully some of the questions will be answered at 8:30. but as he was saying, the question about what exactly this health care worker came in contact with mr. duncan, was this someone who came in contact with him at his first -- the first time he went to the hospital? and was turned away? was it someone that came in contact with him at the second visit when he was admitted but before hes with diagnosed with ebola? or is this a health care worker that came in contact with him after he was officially diagnosed? those are three different scenarios completely. if it

sanjay gupta is going to join us. sanjay has been reporting in west africa on the front lines of this outbreak. also the director of the department of emergency medicine at new york's mt. sinai hospital joins us. he was involved in treating a possible case there which turned out not to be ebola. dr. sheerer. and staff writer at the dallas morning news. and a former cdc detective. she joins me here live. sanj sanjay, what does it say that a nurse, not a family member of mr. duncan, but a nurse could contract ebola from him? >> well, you know, on one hand, you know, it's health care professionals who are dealing with patients who are the sickest from ebola. we know when they're sick, that's when they are potentially the most infectious, most contagious in that regard. in part, it's health care workers often who are the ones that get sick, especially in the early parts of an outbreak. on the other hand, she would be wearing personal protective gear, how does it happen despite the fact that she was wearing personal protec

sanjay gupta, thank you as well for your reporting today.ou just heard this notion of being compelled to stay under quarantine. this is a legal order. this woman has no choice. so what about those who may be next? if there are others who start showing any symptoms or they can establish they have actually come into close contact, what is the law? can you be compelled by the government to stay home when you've done nothing wrong? we'll outline all of that after the break. [ female announcer ] we lowered her fever. you raise her spirits. we tackled your shoulder pain. you make him rookie of the year. we took care of your cold symptoms. you take him on an adventure. tylenol® has been the number 1 doctor recommended brand of pain reliever for over 20 years. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. t-mobile's network has more data capacity than verizon or at&t. it's a network designed differently. a network designed data strong. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plan

sanjay gupta. he'll join us in just a moment. so dr.lexander, you brought some gloves here and you brought also a suit that's similar, right? to the ones that are being used. take us through. what do you think happened when we talk about breaches in protocol? show us. >> it's really interesting. the first thing to say is the protocols are quite ambiguous. okay? there are two different cdc protocols which they could be using. and they don't specify the kind of gloves. now, the kind of gloves we've got here are vinyl gloves. and these are widely used in hospitals. they're quite brittle and they're transparent. so if you puncture this you can't see through your skin. so it's possible she had a break in the glove. you can feel if you put it on they'll snap very easily. and if you get a small nick in the skin there you can see it's the same color as the skin so much harder to see than a purple glove. >> you can't really see that. you're right. >> but even if you don't have a break in the glove, even if the glove's intact, in taking them off

sanjay gupta. i have a lot of questions. sanjay, we know that this 29-year-old nurse she treated thomas eric duncan who died of ebola last wednesday morning. she then gets on this commercial airline, flies to cleveland and this, according to dr. frieden absolutely violated cdc protocol. would she have known that? >> well she should have known that but i'm giving her the benefit of the doubt my guess is she was not told that. two points. first the cdc is not an authority that can mandate things like this. they provide guidance and recommendations. dr. frieden talked about this idea of controlled movement. they recommend people who have been in contact with somebody who has had ebola have controlled movement. they don't get on commercial airlines. they take a chartered plane, they can get in cars but need to be monitoring their temperature every day. so this shouldn't have happened. whether she was told this and knew this or most i give her the benefit of the doubt and say she didn't and maybe she was being diligent and still

sanjay gupta, thank you very much. as sanjay said we are also learning this morning that doctors may not have screened this patient properly from the start. elizabeth cohen live in dallas with that side of the story. good morning. >> we're learning something that's disturbing here this morning, so my friend sanjay just explained this patient showed up here at the hospital that i'm in front of on the 26th with symptoms of ebola, and was sent home, and then came back in an ambulance on the 28th. that is not supposed to happen, and i was speaking with an official who is familiar with this situation and this official told me, look, this patient did not say that we been travel in liberia, and even more importantly, the hospital did not ask about his travel history. this official said hey, this is a big problem, the cdc has been telling hospitals for a long time now you've got to ask for travel histories when people show up with these symptoms, and the fact that a hospital as large as this according to this official didn't a

sanjay gupta. we started off talking about the importance of this tracking down of all the patient contacts. take a listen. >> we go from the moment he could have been inif he cfectio 24th last wednesday and we retrace every step, every contact where he might have had direct physical contact with somebody and for each one of those contacts we will monitor them for 21 days after exposure in conjunction with the local and state health department and the hospital to see if they develop symptoms. that's how you stop an ebola outbreak. that's what we will do in this case. there is no doubt in my mind that we can stop it in its tracks here. >> you feel confident of that? because there are a lot of people waking up to this news this morning realizing a patient has been diagnosed in the united states of america, he is on soil here in america, he is in a u.s. hospital and there's going to be concern. you can understand that? >> absolutely. but you know the plain truth is we've stopped this outbreak dozens o

sanjay gupta and he is outside of emory hospital as they await the patient. i know you just got off the phone with a government official and you have news about why the decision was made to send this nurse to emory but not the nurse currently still at dallas presbyterian. >> reporter: it sounds like a staffing issue, erin. i've been curious about this decision for amber to come here in emory, because it would provide better treatment or were they concerned about the ability to contain ebola in dallas and thought memory would do a better job. we are hearing a slightly different picture and an important one, they are worrying about taking care of patients because of staffing in dallas right now. as was said to me by the government official, there is concerns that there are nurses walking out and not able to care for the patients. so it is not as much of a situation, there is a magic potion or wand waived here at emory, but they are concerned they can't keep up with her care over there, erin. >> that is pretty significant. that they would be at this point saying

sanjay gupta. one of the reasons, main reason. the nurse want to emory hospital.urses were going to le their posts for fear of ebola. this was actually the first i heard of it. nurses are more than willing to step up to plate to provide safe patient care. but they actually need the equipment the training the education and the practice using that equipment because this can be a life threatening disease. and it is not fair to ask those nurses not only to put their own lives on the line. but the lives of their family and their loved ones. and, i know, you know i was really proud of those nurses that came forward to talk about the -- the conditions that they were working under. because -- it's unconscionable. they would send the nurses in to provide care for mr. duncan with their skin exposed and having to do make shift wrapping tape around their necks. so, i am proud of the nurses that are trying to get the attention they need to be able to supply safe patient care. >> you are looking now at amber vincent. getting, going to -- going to the hospital in atlanta there.

would you stay in that home, sanjay? >> well, first of all, you hate that it's become so political. >> yep. >> and there's going to be a lot of attention on that home. if she leaves her home, it's going to make a lot of news, upset people and people are going to be scared. but i have to say, based on science, which is a good thing to base something on, frankly, she is in the right here. she works for an organization, dock a doctors without borders, who have been doing this work for a long time and they have specific guidelines. they say quarantine is neither recommended nor warranted for someone who is not sick or showing symptoms of ebola. and she is not. so it -- really, she's within her right as far as the organization goes. i've looked at the cdc guidelines and if you look at her particular situation, they also say she does not need to be self-quarantined. they would say she has to be sel self-monitored. but you have this collision, brooke, between science and social fear. and that's real and it's happening. >> i was

sanjay gupta, thank you for joining us. frontier airlines sent a memo to employees saying it's grounding two pilots and four flight attendance for 21 days after amber vinson flew on 1143. they're showing the abundance of caution now. we know she has full-blown ebola at this moment. we're told she is in worse condition than her colleague nina pham being treated in dallas. frontier airlines says it's keeping the aircraft out of service and being extensively cleaned. in fact, cleaning it four times over. professor arthur kaplan division of medical ethics at new york university and also joining us former ntsb managing director peter goelz. we'll start with you, peter and talk about the airline procedures. we hear frontier airlines saying it's going over and above cdc guidance. is this to try to rebuild confidence in the airlines? have they already taken a hit? >> i think there's no question it's designed to rebuild confidence. the airplane cleaners are really the forgotten people in the airline business. they're paid minimum wa

sanjay gupta joins me now. as you just demonstrated t seems like the biggest risk certainly is taking off that protective clothing. you tried to follow the protocols and still found yourself contaminated so do you think the cdc needs to change its guidelines perhaps? >> you know, perhaps ana. one thing about ebola it's not forgiving. we know even a small amount can cause abinfection, just keep that in the back of your mind as you're think being protocols. when i was in west africa, in ebola camps and mind you, these are tents that are literally put up in the middle of fields, they had much different and much more stringent protocols and the doctors without borders, they've been doing this for decades and only this year had the first time a patient transmitted the virus to a health care worker and in the united states the first patient transmitted the virus to a health care worker. you look at that garb and it covers every part of your skin. that's sort of the key thing, any bodily fluid that's infected that get

sanjay gupta. it really brings home how easily contamination could occur when taking off the suits. >> want to show you how i'm going to take this protective equipment off. i'm also going to put a possible ebola contamination on my hand. take a look. this is the mask. so here's the most likely contaminated area. we do my gloves. and the front of my gown like this. okay, now i have -- i have to treat this as if i'm potentially contaminated. i come out. what i'm going to do with this particular gown. i'm going to rip it all off together. everything will come off simultaneously. par of the glove brushed against my arm there. that could potentially be an exposure. the glove didn't come off properly, i would reach underneath here as best i could and get underneath. there but perhaps if i didn't do it exactly right, there could be another potential exposure there. i'm reaching behind now. but let's say the side of my face shield is contaminated and i touched here. that could potentially be an exposure. s

sanjay gupta and here with me on set, dr. alexander. sanjay, you first. hearing general dempsey talking about, you know, the possibility for this virus to go airborne based on this fast mutation rate. is that really possible? >> very, very unlikely. when you're at his level, obviously, considering all possibilities, no matter how small is part of your job, part of how he views the world and i can fully under and appreciate that. you don't want to take any chances. there are very reputable scientists who study this for a long time saying the chance of this going airborne is zero percent. the idea that any virus that causes disease in humans that we know of, we have never hear of a situation where a mutation has caused one of those viruses to change the way it transmits between humans. that hasn't happened. hiv has been around for decades. it's mutated many, many times p.m. become resistant to more and more drugs but never changed its mode of transmission. is it possible? yes. are we dabbling on the edges and fringes, yes. this induces more fear than leadin

sanjay gupta was at the event and joins us shortly. but first, one of kaci hickox's attorneys, steven hymin joins me here, first of all, i just want to clarify a few things. the state now is going to court to mandate that she be quarantined. will she fight that? >> yes, but there is no way to fight it right now. this is ex parte at the moment, they're going to a judge saying what they're saying. no papers have been served on kaci within the domain of the government of maine to do what they think they're supposed to do. >> now, the state troopers outside her house, or her boyfriend's house, if she tries to leave that place will they arrest her? >> i don't know what the order is going to say. i don't know what the circumstances will be. but it is clear that the troopers are not there to protect kaci. >> they say -- the governor of maine says, and i want to get this right, that she has been uncooperative and not adhering to state and federal protocols. >> that is completely wrong. that is so far from the facts. kaci, who knows what the st

sanjay gupta. you talk about the insider, he has a good managerial skill, can handle crisis, and we note there is no "dr." or "ph.d." behind his name. do you think there will be frustration from the medical community a doctor could have been a better choice here or is this largely being seen as a managerial role? >> i don't think there will be that much frustration from the medical community. i've gotten e-mails from leaders in the medical community wondering allowed if it should have been a doctor but i don't think that's so much frustration. i think part of it will be how much he incorporates dr. frieden, the head of the cdc, and dr. fauci, the infectious disease guy at the nih. it sounds like he probably will inkoorp rate them a lot into the plans going forward. this is obviously a medical issue at the forefront of this but there are other issues we've seen as well. commercial flights. the talk at the congressional hearings about travel bans. medicine and science drive those discussions but ther

john and christine. >> thanks, sanjay.he dallas hospital that initially turned duncan away is now investigating the missteps that sanjay was discussing. texas health presbyterian said duncan came to the er with a low grade fever and abdominal pain. what doctors did not learn was done duncan had told a nurse he traveled to west africa. >> he volunteered he traveled to africa. in response to the nurse operating the check list in asking that question. regretfully, that information was not fully communicated through the full team. >> during those few days between duncan's first symptoms and admission to the hospital, every one he came in contact with may have than exposed to ebola. health officials are closely watching 12 to 18 people who had close physical contact with duncan for symptoms. they include five children who attend four area schools. that has the dallas public schools scrambling to reassure nervous parents. >> it has been confirmed that five students may have come in contact with an individual recently diagnosed w