ginsberg and sarah ballard here tonight as they sent olive gong, and never spoke for themselves. >> she seems to have a nice woman but did not have a clue as to ha was going on and the sunshine task force had to can her twice it was embarrassing for her when she came the first time and asked to go and find the it records and she had not done a thing and she was basically taken to the wood shed and and send back to find something. so i don't, the way that i look at this, rec and park is never treat it as serious issue, and i think that mr. ginsberg with his 50 categories but not one for mark. i find is interesting that he would go through everything, i wonder what key word he was using it would be interesting to find out. and honestly i don't believe him. i hope that that answers your question, thank you. >> thank you. >> any other questions for mr. wooding? >> comments in the commissioners? >> i am looking at the one e-mail april 25, 2011, that is on page 235. of the december 5, 2011 sunshine ordinance task force packet. for me, the issue comes down to like i said one, did he search the

. >> commissioner sarah ballard for the recreation and parks department. i will just add to that olive gong's role is to receive the request and deseminate them to the staffers and ask the question do they have any information. i searched my records not dissimilar to my boss the general manager, i keep essentially as my inbox to-do list and anything that complies with the record retention policy is saved either in an e-mail folder and most often also printed out and saved in a hard copy file. and so, i searched both my e-mail folders and hard copy files and none of these documents were, i did not still have any of these documents, at the time of the request. which was a believe about 6 weeks or eight weeks after the e-mail exchanges took place. >> and i am happy to answer any other questions that you may have, thank you. >> mr. wooding? >> you have five minutes. >> (inaudible) you look at and you bifercate your own issues. i do think that this was a group effort it is clear to me. the way that i got the documents they were clandestined here this is for you

she wrote a one page letter and signed it sarah ballard, director of public affairs, phone number and e-mail address and etc.. so this is definitely an official communication that she spent a great deal of time on and should have been provided. >> the only reason that we had a suspicion that these e-mails might exist is because the title and panel make-up suddenly out of the blue, changed, it was fine with the common wealth club for months and then all of a sudden, we get a call that it is changing >> if we had not been provided by a wonderful free speech public spirited citizen, with the e-mails we would never have known they existed. we would have done a sunshine request and we would have been told that they were not there. what are you going to do to help people who make requests hoping to find out something and they don't or they are not sure that the documents exist? what are you going to do if there is not a whistle blower who provides the documents? how are you going to provide some kind of accountability for our city departments if you don't do something about this? and i can

also, i would like to say that i could not believe sarah ballard, she wrote an e-mail on figure one that is long with a great sentence in here that she accuses the panel of being deeply bias and no interest in discussing facts and she made some very, very disturbing comments, she is an employee employee, she is on my nickel and she is making these horrendous comments and she does not remember that she had them and just says, oh, you know, she did not say that she deleted them, she just does not have any records any more. i can understand why because this is a daming piece of paper. i don't think that it is a good idea for you to pass on this second group, you let mr. ginsberg got a pass, not these people. miss ballard has been found guilty of doing something, she has not been forth coming to this body or to any of us. she did not come in and say, gee, olive i have records and deleted them now what i do? she just pretended like they never existed. this is an indictment, you can't ignore it. thank you. >> good evening, my name is nan clark i have never been to an ethics commission meeting

notification by the task force and says that the task force provides willful failure against ginsberg and sarah ballard. >> right, and just not, i believe that is the task force's long standing practice to forward complaints to you when the task force finds a willful violation, but, that question is not before the ethics commission under chapter two, the only question is whether there was a violation of the ordinance in this case. >> okay. >> what i was looking at was i think that we are all looking at the december 5, documents? where it speaks to willful failure and official misconduct against ginsberg and ballard and then a referal for failure to comply with the order for buell and gong. >> it would not change my view because i think that the... why is ballard included under willful failure? is there any... that just is how the complaint was... >> that is my understanding of how the task force operates. i have never attended a task force meeting and we refer may find willful violations if they refer them to you. but, i mean commissioner studley is right, they did refer this and did refer buell and go

have been all e-mails dealing with the common wealth club or in communication with mark beul or sarah ballard. there might be other material but i don't remember. >> i am trying to imagine what search you might have conducted here. >> i actually do keep very thorough e-mail records. i have probably about 50 different files and i actually have a lot of e-mails and records for a vote of public policy topics and i would have searched all of them and nothing came up. >> how... i am trying to... how are they divided? you would have had a common wealth club folder? >> i may not have had a folder or i may have checked in the in box, i have an in-box and as time allows i try to manage my files where i will move e-mails in conformance with the department's record retention policy into subject matter files, i may have a file for parks, a file for beach, i may have a file for recreation. you know, basically different subject matter, because it is easy to organize and i have 50. >> do you have a folder for mr. buel? >> i do not. >> maybe i should. >> so when you searched these e-mails, do ut have to sear