for an unexploded mortar shell. >> they head up into the mountains around sarajevo. bosnian and serb forces spent nearly four years here fighting a brutal war of attrition. more than two decades later, the region is still very dangerous. >> we had eight accidents with six fatalities and 12 total injured in bosnia-herzegovina. >> they make their way through landmines and unexploded mortar shells. the work is not easy -- even gps coordinates are not always precise, so there's always a risk. but they know their work is vital. >> we think about handicapped people, the people who got disabled due to unexploded ordnance and mines. >> another dangerous mortar shell neutralized. but it's hard work. it's taken nearly an entire day just to deal with one mortar from the war. every day, ermin jusufovic works towards a time when he and his family can live a carefree life. every victory on the court helps. competing in last year's paralympic games was particularly special. >> we won second place, but the feeling was really the same as if we'd got the gold medal. >> ermin plans to

. >> the sarajevo market was crowded with monday morning shoppers when death fell from the sky. >> billrce. the idea that he would be the american leader who would get nato to participate in its first military campaign was not something that was predictable. >> more than 60 nato jets began pounding bosnian serb positions around sarajevo overnight. >> allied fighters and bombers, most of them americans, swooped down on bosnian serb military positions around sarajevo. >> booze kneeian government troops are racking up stunning gains around north bosnia. >> the campaign will make clear that they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by continuing to slaughter innocent civilians. >> president clinton finally came to the right judgment. we don't have to put a boot on the ground. we don't have to send in our tanks. we can just bomb those bullies, and it worked. >> good evening from paris. this was a historic day for american diplomacy. the serbs and the croats of the largely muslim bosnian government committed themselves to a lasting peace. this scene would not have been possible without

. >> the sarajevo market was crowded with monday morning shoppers when death fell from the sky. >> billrce. the idea that he would be the american leader who would get nato to participate in its first military campaign was not something that was predictable. >> more than 60 nato jets began pounding bosnian serb positions around sarajevo overnight. >> allied fighters and bombers, most of them americans, swooped down on bosnian serb military positions around sarajevo. >> bosnian government troops are racking up stunning gains around north bosnia. >> the campaign will make clear that they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by continuing to slaughter innocent civilians. >> president clinton finally came to the right judgment. we don't have to put a boot on the ground. we don't have to send in our tanks. we can just bomb those bullies, and it worked. >> good evening from paris. this was a historic day for american diplomacy. the serbs and the croats of the largely muslim bosnian government committed themselves to a lasting peace. this scene would not have been possible without the u

and sarajevo they told him, don't go there the guy that assassinates him is a serbian terrorist from a group called the black -- if you're writing a movie you wouldn't mick this up. that is the spark that starts a fire that burns down the house of europe. it's crazy. makes no sense, did anybody want the war they got? no. the hungarians would have loved to have smooshed the serbs because of the way they were behaving, but actually the plan would have allowed them to do that without having a great war, but one thing led to the other and by the end everybody had lost the thing they cared about most. in fact if i could do one more second on it because i think it's startling and relevant. there's no number u.s. wants a war with china. and i don't know of a single person in defense who doesn't think that we be crazy. i think there's no one in the ministry of defense that thinks a war with the u.s. is a good idea. war would be catastrophic, but in the end of world war i, what happened to what each of the parties cared most about? it was gone they ever hungarians were trying to hold together

. -- sarajevo. charlie: that started the war. graham: absolutely. have studied this case since college. it is still unbelievable. the parties were not looking for a war with each other. how in the world did an archduke who was a lonely emperor, at the end of this war, every one of the participants had lost what he cared about most. he is trying to keep together his empire and he's gone. the empire is dissolved. the russian czar and trying to back the serbians. he was overthrown by the bolsheviks. the kaiser backing his buddy in vienna. you look at this. if they were given a do over, they would not have done what he did. charlie: war happens over a wrong assumption or some triggered event that nobody expected. graham: right. and that's the extreme danger. and today, i would say the thing that sounds the most dangerous like that is kim jong-un testing icbm's. charlie: let's talk about that. here's what the president said. he said i went to mar-a-lago and , said to the chinese and said i'm passionate about trade and getting a fair deal for american wor

dangerous diej, an accident happens, basically, a serbian terrorist assassinates an arch duke in sarajevo and triggers. >> rose: that was the spark that started the war. >> absolutely. i have studied this case since i was in college, a long time ago. it's still unbelievable. the parties were not looking for a war with each other, anything like the war they had. so how in the world an arch duke, the emperor in austria and hungary cared about. at the end of this war, everyone had lost when they cared most. he's gone, the empire's dissolved. the russian czar, he's trying to back the serbians. he was overthrown by the bolsheviks. kaiser is backing his buddy in vienna, he's been tossed out. france bled for a generation. if they were given a do-over, nobody would have chose whaen he did. >> rose: war likely to happen over some missed assumption, wrong assumption, or some trigger event that nobody expected. >> right. >> rose: and everybody rushes in. >> and that's the extreme danger. and today i would say the thing that sort of sounds the most dangerously like that is kim jong-un testing interco

how could the assassination of an archduke, who otherwise nobody cared much about, in sarajevo by a serbian terrorist, have produced a spark that created a fire that burned down the whole house of europe? so devastating, that by the end of the war, historians had to invent a whole new category, world war. i mean, it seems incredible, but germany had risen great fear in britain. germany was being ruled by the kaiser. the kaiser, as bismark said about it, is like a balloon fluttering in the wind on the end of a string. and if anybody ever let go of the string, which they did, watch out. each of the parties distrust the other hugely. everything each other does is misinterpreted. external events can have impacts that would otherwise be inconsequential. the role that the leaders play can be very important. and in the german case, germany versus britain, the kaiser is a particularly instructive case. >> warner: president bush and president obama have worked very hard with the chinese. the chinese leader president xi has even talked about avoiding the thucydides trap. so given all of that, is it i

twenty years as a war correspondent covering conflicts in central america the middle east and was in sarajevo during the war in the former yugoslavia. there are moments when societies are pushed to such an extreme as was true for instance i'm sorry ava where they have to employ violence. in that city which was being shelled by the serbs day and night to. thousand shells a day constant sniper fire forty five dead a day two dozen wounded a day. was protected by trench systems we knew that if the serbs surrounding serve forces broke through those trenches a third of the city would be slaughtered in the rest would be driven into refugee and displacement camps and that was wasn't conjecture we were that what happened in vukovar adreno valley and all sorts of other places so at that point you know especially being shelled. nobody was sitting around in a basement arguing over pacifism but that doesn't save you from the poison of violence i think when you look at foreign occupation such as our occupation of iraq israeli occupation of gaza i used to work in algeria and land at the airport i would say