sarbanes-oxley, of course, referring back to the post-enron scandal issues. what concerns do you have with this new law? >> well, reasonable people can disagree about sarbanes-oxley and a number of other revisions in this bill. there are good things and bad things. but what's really fundamental is this bill undoes what has been the key overarching principle of our system of securities regulation for 80 years or more. and that key principle is justice brandeis's rule that sunlight is the best disinfectant, electricity the best policeman. we let people take high risk, but we compel disclosure to them. that is about to change because under the jobs act we're retreating from this principle of transparency and we're allowing a large number of companies-- some of them quite sizable with potentially billions in assets to sell stock to the public and then cut off all further disclosures because under this statute as long as you do not have 2,000 shareholders of record-- and i stress the words "o record"-- there's no obligation to say anything more to them. you can ma

it was never really the intention originally of sarbanes-oxley to try to make it extremely costly forcompany to have an ipo. and this thing is just trying to enable companies to get a little bigger before they have to have an ipo that they can attract some investors. i think overall, that's probably pretty good. >> so you know, the concern, i think, a lot of people have had and for those who are watching previously there had had been, you know, a sort of conflict of interest inside of investment banking firls, where a lot of the -- firls, where a lot of the -- firms, where a lot of the investment advisors, the investor used to make decisions about investments, were separated, and now this tears down that separation wall, so that those who end up making decisions may end up relying upon the advice of those inside, in-house. is that not a conflict that concerns you? >> no, i mean, as i say, there are some concerns. the thing that came out of some of the shenanigans of the late '90s and the 2000s were analysts inside of the banks kind of touting the stocks that they were governing the ip

the other thing you mentioned is it tears down part of sarbanes-oxley.any goes public, for five years after they go public they don't have to do in accounts under sarbanes-oxley. >> it also expands the category of those that don't have to register with the s.e.c. so there's now all sorts of ways in which you can raise capital. william black joins us now, senior regulator during the savings and lone scandals, and author of the book "the best way to rob a bank is to have one." good to have you. >> thank you. it's great to be on. >> why are you so concerned about it. >> well fundamentally what this is doing is taking to the world of equities the shadowed banking system, what it did in the world of debt, and we've just seen what creating opaqueness does in the world of debt. it produces a global disaster. >> could i -- sorry. let me just translate that. so what you're saying. what you're saying is the financial crisis was a sort of essentially jeguess stated -- a the derivatives market. >> you're saying it's going to move the same sorts of things. just so pe

the sarbanes-oxley has a law where the ceo of a company and the chief financial officer has to sign off on the financial statements and they are personally liable. >> yep. >> why not when it comes to foia, where you have an agency official who clarly has a self-interest, because you're investigating agency corruption and the word is out we're not going to fulfill these requests unless we're absolutely forced to, why not make the senior agency person personally liable for not fulfilling a foia request? maybe not for all, but when it involves agency corruption, why not have something similar to sarbanes-oxley? is that completely impossible? i know it hasn't been part of the debate, but you have that model now. >> part of the issue is often the front person, not the decisionmaker, is who signs now, right? so are we going to make the head of the agency sign the foia response letters? because as a practical matter that's in part one of the reasons why the earliest sanctions i spoke of, of getting that court order that went nowhere, you know, then the question is well, who's the responsible o

we have dodd-frank, sarbanes-oxley. they're talking about transactions and the volcker rule, the buffett rule gets to private equity. it would harm the economy. the financial system is at the heart of commit. i want to talk first trust is a money manager. we have about $55 billion under management in little wheaton, illinois. so we follow obviously where tax rates are going, what might happen in the future very closely. i want to back up just a second because what really matters what wh we look into the future is the level of spending that the federal government is doing today. it's at 24% of gdp. we have never balanced the budget in the last 60 years when spending was over 19.5% of gdp. not once have we been able to balance the budget. and that's because when spending goes over that kind of level, it harms growth, reduces tax receipts, then the calls for higher tax rates come in and it's a vicious downward spiral. we get virtuous upward spirals when we cut spending and that's what reduces pressure on higher tax rates.

>> sarbanes-oxley is specifically designed for this kind of event.arbanes-oxley, you it your these over to the audit committee that the hires a blue chip law firm frrm outside. they decided to not use wilky far, that law firm and a forensic investigator immediately get solved. the sec only deals with them. that's how you're able to root out corruption. this is was without a doubt if the times is right such a violation of sarbanes-oxley that the justice department can have a field day if they want to. >> we should also point out although it happened in mexico, there is a long-standing law, the foreign corrupt practices act. that's what knelt bribery overseas even if it's accepted practice in mexico, it's a violation of u.s. law and this is a u.s. corporation. >> two weeks ago, a major executive from a company called kbr which had been part of halliburton was actually sentenced to 30 months. the investigation began 2003. turns out that that company made payments to nigeria to get a very big liquefied natural gas plant. guys going to jail for three year

sarbanes-oxley may make sense for some of these larger companies, but having the same rules for these little companies just didn't make sense. now there's an onramp that allows companies that are under $1 billion of revenue, under $700 million in market valuation and only for a period of up to five years to essentially slide into that process of being fully comply it with sarbanes-oxley. there's still a lot of disclosure requirements and people investing in these companies still have sufficient investor protection. that was the key balance. how do you provide capital to entrepreneurs so they can grow faster, create jobs, innovate faster while protecting investors whether it be with crowd funding or the ipo onramp. >> i like it. it makes a lot of sense. and i hope we get those business start-ups. steve case, thank you very much. great to see you again. >>> coming up on "kudlow," more positive data today on chain store sales. but markets still fear the end of fed stimulus. and i do think the markets are wrong. to me, less fed, king dollar becomes a tax cut that can lift all stocks. i wa

we've got to repeal sarbanes oxley, dodd-frank, obamacare. we have a long list. [applause] i want to take the top tax rate that americans pay and i want that about 20% of where it is now. how will i pay for it? i will limit the deductions, particularly for high income folks so that the high-income folks pay the same share they now appeared on not looking to lower taxes on the wealthy, as the democrats always charge. they will share the -- pay the same burden a share now. but by lowering the marginal tax rates, that helps small business. instead of paying 35% tax rate, they will pay more. these are the kinds of things small businesses need to do to grow and add jobs. we have to understand that we are in competition. i am told that your time is up and my time is up. we are in competition for jobs. we are in competition for the best jobs. we want to rising incomes. we want our economy to be so strong. and by the way, that means all of our businesses, to be so strong that they will form the strongest military in the world. we want to have the best schools in the worl

now only 20% because of cost and complexity of the sarbanes-oxley.nes-oxley makes sense, having the same rules apply to walmart and apply to a small company doesn't make sense. the j.o.b.s. about the recognizes that and puts an on ramp in place. companies wouldn't have gone public now can. that's particularly important. some companies don't wait until later in the life cycle and they get sold. investors get tired, want their capital back. then job growth decelerates. 92% job growth happens after companies go public. this on ramp is important and we struck the right balance giving aunt tra pra near what's they need to grow and protect investors in a balanced way. >> thank you. i'm ali velshi with this week's "fortune brainstorm." >>> and everybody loves free stuff, and that's what we have today in gaming and gadgets. our technology expert marc saltzman joining us skype with five free smartphone and tablet apps worth grabbing for the spring. hi, marc. happy easter and passover weekend. if you are going on a road trip, and you don't want to pay for a gp

if duke and former ceo lee scott at that moment had simply obeyed sarbanes-oxley and turned it over to audit committee for a full-blown outside investigation by a forensic investigative accounting firm as well as a big-time can't be swayed international law firm, then the problems might have stopped right there. but the times is very clear that walmart considered and rejected that course of action, choosing to handle it internally. guys, that's not how it's done. under sarbanes-oxley, it's easy to make a case right there against both management and conceivably the audit committee itself for dropping the ball, for letting that happen. second, it doesn't take too much of a leap of faith to think that the justice and the s.e.c. can say walmart hid a material matter from the public. given that mexico is walmart's largest international market, that alone could be worth prosecuting, particularly because lee scott, ceo, was still on the board, and mike duke, the vice chairman directly in charge at the time, so now running the place. if either had left the company, it could be a different stor

the chair now recognize sarbanes for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. thank you for being here, mr. secretary. obviously, very important issue for us, and i want to commend the administration and you and other cabinet level officials for the commitment. and i think much more coordinated commitment to reviving american manufacturing. i am very focused on some of the special initiatives that have been undertaken at nist. you referenced nist in your comments. in particular, the manufacturing extension partnership which i know you're familiar with. within that, in the last couple of years, there's been a special outreach effort called the supplier scouting initiative. and i don't know if you are familiar with that or not, but basically, the idea there is to work harder to find a match between these contracting opportunities with the federal government and domestic manufacturers and suppliers and vendors so that we don't have as many instances where somebody is applying or asserting a waiver should be granted from, say, a buy american provision. because in f

senator paul sarbanes is here. from the maryland contingent. now, we have action on the floor, some members are coming and going, but i think we have to have a shot up to the members who have turned out. first, senator pryor, caylee hutchins, from the senate, -- kb lee hutchins, from the senate. amy, tom harkin, chuck schumer. any others? oh, the most senior of the mam all! we are getting there, we are getting there. ok, i want all of our colleagues from the house to raise their hands so they can be acknowledged. [applause] wave to barbara. and now for our surprise guest. barbour kept saying to me, why can't we start the program? people have to get to the food and refreshments and the desert. i said, just a few more minutes. who are we waiting for? she is never in patient, you know that. [laughter] it is a tremendous honor for all of us at a real sign of the respect and regard with which senator barbara mikulski has been held for decades, and now passing this great record, this one best serving woman, most accomplished woman and the congress of

increase for our economists group in this 2013 proposed budget is that the ten-year review of the sarbanes oxley rules will fall about that time. there will be an enormous amount of economic work that needs to be done in connection with that. >> can you dify up the rules, the other four commissioners different

the chair now recognize sarbanes for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. thank you for being here, mr. secretary. obviously, very important issue for us, and i want to commend the administration and you and other cabinet level officials for the commitment. and i think much more coordinated commitment to reviving american manufacturing. i am very focused on some of the special initiatives that have been

the sarbanes-oxley act really required companies to take a look at their internal controls and accounting practices and when they started taking a look they saw there were some unaccounted for funds that might have been going to foreign officials. so really in the past four or five years, enforcement has ramped up to unprecedented levels. >> and we're going to open up our phone lines for a discussion with you. certainly walmart is in the headlines and has been in the past week since the "new york times" wrote the story. the charlie savage piece story "with walmart claims, greater attention on the law." we'll get your questions and comments. if you want to comment on the walmart story you're welcome to do that or the avon story we just showed you. if you'd like to learn more about the lie and how it's applied over time, join us in the conversation here. here's a quote from twitter from someone who is named freelancer who writes "we have laws that govern these type of issues. the problem is the gop enfor enforcement of the laws, the gop didn't apply itself to its buds," meaning buddies. the

senator paul sarbanes is here. from the maryland contingent. now, we have action on the floor, some members are coming and going, but i think we have to have a shot up to the members who have turned out. first, senator pryor, caylee hutchins, om the senate, -- kb lee hutchins, from the senate. amy, tom harkin, chuck schumer. any others? oh, the most senior of the mam all! we are getting there, we are getting there. ok, i want all of our colleagues from t house to raise their hands so they can be acknowledged. [applause] wave to barbara. annow for our surprise guest. barbour kept saying to me, why can't we start the program? people have to get to the food and refreshments and the desert. i said, just a few more minutes. who are we waiting for? she is never in patient, you know that. [laughter] it is a trendous honor for all of us at a real sign of the respect and regard with which senator barbara mikulski has been held for decades, and now passing this great record,his one best serving woman, most accomplished woman and the congress of the unite

congressman john sarbanes. [applause] >> beverly byron.applause] >> in any event let's applaud for all of us because this is a room full of celebrities. [applause] >> another former member, helen bentley. there she is. [applause] >> the room is full of members of the house and senate. as i say we take special pride because of the first ten years of this record-breaking history in the congress those first ten years were spent here in the house of representatives. [applause] >> we have the baltimore contingent here and i start with myself. [applause] >> we have the institutes of notre dom where we both went to high school and when i was sworn in as speaker she wore her ring to the swearing-in. we take great pride in that identity. but isn't this something? on the floor of the senate today we heard about her upbringing in a proud polish american family that is familiar to any of us. her father's grocery store opening up early so steelworkers could buy their lunches before the early shift. she made her career as a social worker and as she like

speak spoken to a lot of people who say this is an open door for fraud this rolls back a bunch of sarbanes oxley tight security laws and allows companies to not report a lot of a lot of accounting and auditing things for years after going public companies make a billion dollars and allows pump and dump schemes and things that created enron and worldcom to happen to happen again is something like this and that positive or negative well it's hard to tell on this one of those jobs and i am no expert on what is in there and what the the the outcomes will be often with you with pieces of legislation like this there are unintended consequences and you think you're solving one problem but you're but are good friends in the congress or creating another so i don't know i would just like us to take a deep breath and step backward here as a country and that we have we're going to have of election here very shortly and i'm hopeful that whoever is elected whether it's president reelected or governor romney by the way i support him but i disagree with him on some of his trying to resurrect and our congr

that is sarbanes-oxley.hey seemed to have completely ignored the protocol. >> there was a protocol to the internal affairs department and they changed the protocol. >> all of this is based on what seems to have been many months of new york times reporting. i would have loved to understand the whistle blower who was at the center of the payments. why seven or eight years later did he and i'm assuming he was the main source, why did he come forward so many years later? i would love to understand why he made that decision so many years later. >> you cover wal-mart better than anyone else in the world. is this a truly despised company where a motivated justice department gets a call from president obama today saying i read the new york times. you open an investigation about these guys? >> i don't think it's a truly despised company at all. personally, i don't think that's the case. it's complicated like everything else. wal-mart is thefore front of so many things in the country be the largest private employer he

it rolls back elements of dodd-frank, roles downtown sarbanes-oxley, important regulations, some of thedid after the global settlement. all of these things democrats they areoretically have worked for and now it goes out the window. it doesn't make sense. >> i have never seen any real evidence that those rules prevent capital formation despite the rhetoric, the talk from the other side, never seen one piece of evidence that substantiates their view. >> the best excuse they have given for why they need to eliminate this independent accounting rule is that it costs too much to hire accountants. are you really going to invest in a company that can't afford to hire an independent accountant? that doesn't make sense. that shows you how dishonest the law is. >> maybe they should have told that to the victims of the mad madoff ponzi scheme. rolling stone contributor, matt taibbi, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you very much eloit. >> my view, a tale of two bankers. >>it is an independent progressive voice and i love that. >>jennifer granholm joins current tv. a former two term gover

>> it rolls back to elements of dodd-frank, roles back sarbanes-oxley, important regulations, some ofdid obviously after the global settlement. all of these things democrats have worked for over the past deck aide and now it goes out the window. it doesn't make sense. >> i have never seen any real evidence that those rules prevent capital formation despite all of the rhetoric. >> right. >> from the other side never seen one piece of evidence that sbstaniates their view. >> the best excuse they have given for why they need to eliminate this independent accounting rule is that it costs too much to hire account ants. you are really going to invest in a company that can't afford to hire an independent accountant? >> right. >> that doesn't make any sense at all. that shows you how starched the law isdishonest the law is t. >> maybe they should have told that to bernie made-off's victims. rolling stone contributing editor editor,matmat. coming up, my view, a tale of two bankers. [ growls ] lucky for me your friends showed up with this awesome bone. hey! you guys are great. and if you got yo

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sud for the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sud for the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sud for the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff'sor the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sev

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff's the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sever

>> that save us sarbanes oxley which cost americans billions in paper work but did not prevent madoff's the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis, big banks in a death spiral. >> banks make bad decisions. it makes sense that you should have a rule to stop that. >> no. >> but what about that cayman building? doesn't it suggest tax fraud. thousands ever companies are registered here. >> it has nothing to do with taxes. in delaware, there is buildings that have ten times or a hundred times as many registered companies. >> it is true. companies register themselves in delaware because delaware has simpler rules. i once started a business there in just one week. >> fox t-shirts. fox hats. great stuff here. >> i could have ridge r. registered my stand even faster in the caymans. >> whey set out to do was to design a system that was market responsive and fast. >> don seymour helped create the simple rules. it takes just ten pages to register a hedge fund and the simple rules work. >> look at our track record. just in the past decade we have been true the crisis of 2000, 2004, and the most sever

sarbanes for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair.i was looking at these reports, we got a bunch of these reports here. the u.s. manufacturing competitive initiative. so there was one from ceos, there's another one from labor, there's a third, and i was looking at some of the recommendations that were included. the one from the ceos optimistically says that they conveyed opinion overall that u.s. had the resources, capabilities and will to be the most competitive, competitive manufacturing nation in the world in the 23st century -- 21st century given a new approach to setting public policy. and then what i found interesting was the first recommendation here or the first principle was from the ceos was policymakers should strive considerably less to create a single specific, con treat industrial -- concrete industrial policy for the future of u.s. manufacturing and develop achievable goals, etc., etc. and then i was looking at the one from labor, ask their first -- and their first recommendation on developing u.s. manufacturing strateg

i'd like to repeal most of dodd/frank, most of sarbanes-oxley. people talk about him choosing rob portman or maybe mitch daniels, both george w. bush budget directors as vice president. he needs to come out with something new. it seems like a fresh start for the economy. and as of yet, he has a very conventional take on the issues which has not been sufficiently popular, at least as of now, to vault him in front of president obama. >> mitt romney picked up some important endorsements today. house speaker john boehner, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. let's listen to those. >> i will be proud to support mitt romney and do everything i can to help him win. >> yeah, i support governor romney for president of the united states, and he is going to be the nominee. and as you notice, the party is in the process of unifying behind him. and i think it's going to be an incredibly close, hard-fought race. >> steve, mitch mcconnell forgot to say that mitt romney's going to win. >> well, look. i think if you're the romney campaign, you're just thrilled