>> guest: the modern saudi arabia came into being when the king of saudi arabia declared that the people at rule that kingdom had been ruling arabia off and on for more than 250 years and so they began in 1744 and lost control and came back and lost control again in 1880 and then the founder of this state and then the current leader returned from exile and in 1932 and then there was a organization of the country to what is now the kingdom of saudi arabia. >> he had 44 sons, 22 wives and 36 of those lives to adulthood. there are still some of those boys and they have ruled the kingdom from brother to brother since he died. but they extended the family there and there'll be 7000 princes. this is part of the problem for the country that there are so many and so they can't obviously just be a government. and so they are now in everything and when you have the favoritism and corruption, it's a problem for the country. >> host: have the family ever met with you? have you had a chance to meet with them? >> guest: i have met with almost all the senior members and in the royal family. many of tho

church in saudi arabia.tually i did the first time i went. the u.s. business community used to have church services in the '70s, and they probably still do somewhere, but i was invited to, the american ambassador to me to what was called a welfare service as opposed to church, but it was a church. they called a welfare service. and most of the people in the church were either americans or koreans it at that time there were a lot of koreans they're doing construction. and korea is a country with a lot of christians, so there were a lot of koreans in that servi service. >> if your jewish american, would you be allowed into saudi arabia to? >> yes. they did not allow the jerusalem post correspondent to accompany obama on this latest trip when he went, but yes, there are jewish americans who get into saudi arabia without any particular difficulty. because in, you know, in the profits time, and both jews and christians were seen as people of the book. so they did not have as much problem. and the saudis today, i

this is the reason i believe the iran-saudi arabia crisis can be managed easily. i understand the saudi arabians are concerned about the rise of iran. when they look at afghanistan, iraq and syria and everywhere they see iran has the upper hand. that is why they mobile mobilealized the forces but they are on the wrong track and they would be the victim. iran wouldn't be vulnerable to the wave of terrorism but i think saudi arabia would be. they are investing on the wrong track. the notion of bringing a balance between iran and saudi arabia in order to sit and negotiate is really -- i really don't understand. because i feel that saudi arabians want to have a balance. it is in the role and influence of saudi arabia and in the region to negotiate. after 30 years of all types of pressures and sanctions and war and use of chemical weapons now iran is the most powerful and stable countries. how long we have to fight together in the region in order to bring balance -- i think the notion is wrong. i believe the terrorist are the same threat to iran, united states, europe a

this is really the reason i believe today iran, saudi arabia crisis can be managed easily. understand saudis are very much concerned about the rise of influence of iran in the region. when they look at afghanistan, iraq, lebanon, syria, everywhere they see iran has upper hand. that's why they have mobilized their forces, but i believe they are investing on wrong track which they would be the first victim. i really believe sincerely, oul' frankly, iran would not be vuln vulnerable to the waveer of terrorism in the region but but saudis, they would be.they are gcc countries, they would be. they are investing on wrong track. and the notion of bringing a balance between iran and saudi arabia in order to sit and negotiation is really -- i really don't understand because i feel the saudis want to have a kind of balance between the role and influence of saudi arabia and iran in the region. then to go to negotiate. t no one knows how long it takes. after 30 years of all types of pressures and sanctions, war, even use of chemical weapons, ld now iran is the most powerful, if not the

firstly, saudi arabia giving $100 million to the u.n. doesn't account for the $10 billion estimated by the u.s. state department that the saudi governors, supporting wahadism. saudi arabia especially the saudi government's more extreme form in-house, the more extreme clerics inside the country those haven't been reined in, they roam freely in muslim holy places, they have control of the muslim holy place et cetera and the public places and a global presence through many of the embassies. saudi arabia's record on this is mixed very mildly and i think the king and his advisors can go much further especially domestically in curbing extremism and therefore winning the battle of ideas at home and by extension allowing muslims 30 million of them who visit saudi arabia, with a harmonious form of islam rather than the controversial form of islam inside the country. >> what would the saudis say their wahabism is a conservative interpretation of islam by a country that sees itself as the custodian of islam or at least islam's holy places that peopl

this is the reason i believe the iran-saudi arabia crisis can be managed easily. understand the saudi arabians are concerned about the rise of iran. when they look at afghanistan, iraq and syria and everywhere they see iran has the upper hand. that is why they mobile mobilealized the forces but they are on the wrong track and they would be the victim. iran wouldn't be vulnerable to the wave of terrorism but i think saudi arabia would be. they are investing on the wrong track. the notion of bringing a balance between iran and saudi arabia in order to sit and negotiate is really -- i really don't understand. because i feel that saudi arabians want to have a balance. it is in the role and influence of saudi arabia and in the region to negotiate. after 30 years of all types of pressures and sanctions and war and use of chemical weapons now iran is the most powerful and stable countries. how long we have to fight together in the region in order to bring balance -- i think the notion is wrong. i believe the terrorist are the same threat to iran, united states, europe an

yes, saudi arabia's contribution should be welcome, but we should bear in mind that the saudi arabia government's extreme arm, in-house. the more extreme clerics inside the country. those haven't been reined in. they run in the holy places. they have control of the system, and a public place, and have a global presence through many embassies. saudi arabia's record on this is mixed. and i think the copying and his advisors can go further, domestically to kush extremism and winning -- curb extremism and rwinning the battle at home to allows those to go away from the country request a better puristic form of islam, rather than the current confrontational form of islam in the countries. >> what would the saudis say, they say that it is conservative, it's a conservative interpretation of islam by a country that sees itself as a custodian of islam. that it's interpreted as a form of violence or a calling to do bad things, isn't saudi arabia's problem. >> i wish i couldn't agree with the analysis, i agree with it to the extent that suicide bombings and violence are condemned. they have done

saudi arabia and egypt disliked and discussed the muslim brother hood. e can determined to eradicate it. qatar has supported the muslim brother hood and is opposed to saudi objections. that defines what the struggle is. that's on top of another struggle between saudi arabia on the one hand of embodiment of sunni islam and iran on the other. iran is not partylibya. if you look at syria, it is an important part. there's a proxy war which extends far beyond libya into which libya has now been dragged. >>> now ballots are sent out today for scotland's referendum for the debate. there were fiery exchanges between the minister who heads the push for independence and british prime minister who gets together the campaign. some thought he was the best perfo performer. >> a grand setting for a fiery and tempered debate. they knew this would be their final chance to go head to head. issue of currency dominated open exchanges. >> if we don't have a currency union, what's plan b? i had no luck asking him what plan b was? i want to know what plan b is. can you tell us?

the only ones are refuting isis it's coming from the salafist scholars in saudi arabia and some of the solid feet. scholars in this country i don't ascribe most of them but what i am saying here is let's not get things confused people like that i'm jim showed real mo buckley mohammed and people like i would like a bit of the they came to be you know the one hobbyist salafist you know minded individuals however far from it the critique while the giants ascribed to the evil ways of or the devil know. this is where it's important to look at all government in this country is doing everything in its power to help our muslim communities and when you say that it's not fair to ascribe blame to the community i apologize for intervening here but you know we are all shocked by what happened to james foley by this execution but this is something that saudi arabia das on a regular basis decapitations they are openly prosecuting other religious groups so you know it seems that the world is so very hard fried by the isis but they're very nonchalant about saudi arabia doing the same thing none of that

and saudi arabia is maybe younger than some of the others. so certainly there are a lot of young people in saudi arabia with new ideas and they are not able to express them very well. it is a repressive society and there is a contraint on activism. it is also however a very wealthy society. it is among the world's largest petroleum exporter. people are boasting the united states is producing more petroleum than saudi arabia but that is not important because we use all of it and import more. they only use a little and explore the rest so they are getting a lot of money in the bank and we are not. so that wealth allows the government to bribe people. so sense the revolutions of 2011, the saudi arabia state has increased the perks you get for bogue a citizen. they have free health care, free education, low interest on housing. it is good to be a saudi arabian in some ways. and kuwait as well which is an oil imerate in the gulf. they gave each person $2500 in 2011 to keep them quite. you could get a nice home theater system so he was saying you c

extremist, if saudi arabia goes to pakistan and says we need nuclear weapons, it will be hard for any pakistani leader to say no. >> i hear you. do thes this question -- saudis worry a lot about something like the arab spring could come to them? >> absolutely. when arab spring began, the king invested $130 billion in buying off the saudi population. that is a lot of money. that tells me he and the other royals were worried what happened to them. they responded in the best way sure everyonemake has everything they want, try to buy everyone off. i think it worries them a lot. i think it is one of the reasons why they supported the military coup in egypt. within minutes, they were the first to endorse the government. loudly aboutted the overthrowing and blaming the united states for being too quick to call for his resignation. thehey are propping up egyptian government with billions and billions of dollars. >> the egyptian government is less dependent on the united states. a point they make every time they have a chance. >> i think the saudis were scared to death. they feel little more c

saudi arabia how could the money be coming from the same source. first saudi arabia gave already before this one billion three billion dollars last year. or so those men now those and serve who are alone and fighting that he needs army the pressure from qatar and saudi arabia and some respect to leave the city and to go. to go through whatever they have been on the mountain i don't know what what is going to be the deal with those and so we heard that this conflict between. darwish and i'm not there in the city because i'm not. and they started to with the old but i don't think. who are the majority would accept easily. we are optimistic that if the long. liberty society is behind every. tree is standing and its supporters and surrounded. or so as long. as city the population in that city will convince those answers on that they are not going to come anymore. i think they don't have any choice. first or to stay in this difficult situation or to leave the city or. generals step to the mountains. yes general let me ask you this hizbullah is offering

people are now boasting the united states is producing more petroleum than saudi arabia. at actually is not very important because we use most of it, or we use all of it, and then we import some more. the saudis only use a little of it and they export all the rest which means they're getting money in the bank, and we are not. and so that wealth allows the government with to bribe people. so since b the revolutions -- since the revolutions of 2011, the saudi state has substantially increased the perks that you get from being a saudi citizen. and, you know, they have free health care and education through the ph.d. and very low interest loans on houses and all kinds of things. it's good to be a saudi in many ways. and so, and kuwait as well which is an oil emirates in the gulf. the emir just gave people, each person, $2500 in 2011 to, you know, keep them quiet. so it's sort of, you know, $2500 you could get a really nice home theater system. so the emir was saying you could have a revolution, or you could have a home theater. [laughter] so so far the people in the oil states

but qatar doesn't want to be told by saudi arabia how to do its business, and it has enough money that it can spite the saudis and do whatever it want to do and it has become a habit and now they like to spite the saudis, the saudis are anti-muslim brother the brotherd they will be the opposite. >> rose: plus they created al jazeera. >> they created al jazeera and behave the united states 0 a crucial military base in the region. >> rose: so they are playing both sides all the time. >> all the time. >> rose: does that make them smart? >> it makes them clever, whether it makes them smart, i don't know but it makes them very, very clever. from the stalled difficult standpoint, qatar is the village that got out of control. >> rose: yes. >> that's what my saudi friends tell me. >> rose: it is a village that got out of control so what are they prepared to do about the village out of control? >> they have been pretty tough on the qatar. >> they you the saudi ambassador, by their standard this is is tough play but they are not -- >> rose: i can tell you they are talking all the time. the week

i don't have proof positive or anyone has a signed contract but if saudi arabia goes to pakistan and says we need nuclear weapons, it's going to be pretty hard for any pakistani leader to say no. >> charlie: i hear you. there's also this question, do the saudis worry a lot about the fact that something like the arab spring could come to them? >> absolutely. when the arab spring began, king abdullah invested $130 billion in buying off the saudi population. that's a lot of money even for saudis. that tells me that he and the other royals were worried it could happen to him and they responded in the best way they could, make sure everyone's got everything they want, try to buy everybody off. i think it worries them a lot. i think it's one of the reasons they supported the military coup in egypt. they were the first literally in minutes to endorse the i.s.i. -- >> charlie: and the egyptian government is less dependent on the united states? >> yes. >> charlie: a point they make every chance they have. >> i think the vawdies were scared to death. i think they feel a little but not a whole l

yeah. >> any changes in saudi arabia? >> do i see any changes in saudi arabia?ell, saudi arabia like a lot of the places that i'm discussing is very young. the median age of the arab world, say 370 million people or so, is 24. and in my generation back in the '60s, i think the u.s. got down to 28. that was when we made all that trouble. [laughter] but they're even younger. and saudi arabia's maybe even younger than some of the others. so certainly there are a lot of young people in saudi arabia with new ideas, and they're not able to express them very well. it's an extremely repressive society, and people are, you know, there is a constraint on activism. it's also, however, a very wealthy society. it's among the world's -- it is the world's largest petroleum exporter. people are now boasting the united states, you know, is producing more petroleum than saudi arabia. that actually is not very important because we use most of it, or we use all of it, and then we import some more. the saudis only use a little bit of it, and then they export all the rest which means

if you look at jihads taking part in brutal fighting in islamic states, they're saudi arabia people. em -- the voices that you hear on tapes with people pronouncing things and people having their heads cut off, they're saudis. what did government fears is these people will come back to their own country. they have a vested interest in stopping the state. this sounds weird because people in shiite dominated countries accuse saudi arabia of funding and encouraging islamic state. they have categorically denied this. they have put out denials publicly in the newspapers. there's no denying private donors in saudi arabia and kuwait and other gulf countries have been funding and probably still are funding islamic state. it's not coming from the government. they've got everything to fear from these people. saudi arabia fought a long and bitter insurgent campaign. a lot of people died and got blown up. they don't want to see this come back again. $100 million is a drop in the ocean for saudi arabia. it's the world's biggest oil producer. they want to see islamic states stopped. >> always great

a rivalry with saudi arabia.tar is a tiny little city state and saudi arabia is a big country and home of the two holiest places in islam but qatar does not want to be told how to do its business and it has enough money that he can spite the saudi's and do whatever it wants to do and it has become a habit. now they like to spite the saudi's and the saudis are anti-muslim brotherhood. >> they've created al jazeera. gave the u.s. a crucial military base. they are playing both sides. does that make them smart? >> and make some clever. whether it makes them smart i do not know but it makes them clever. from the saudi standpoint, qatar is the village that got out of control. >> what are they prepared to do about the village out of control? >> they have withdrawn the saudi ambassador. this is the toughest play. > they are talking all the time. the week i was there. >> they may be doing something else. it is interesting that qatar's b ofto host the world cup soccer is the subject of all these revelations of corruption.

there is no closer relationship than the one between saudi arabia and pakistan. ime minister sharif this week , they are meeting and spending time there and meeting with all of the senior saudi royals. yes. i do not have proof positive, i do not have a signed contract. i do not think anyone has a signed contract but in extremis if saudi arabia goes to pakistan and says we need nuclear weapons it will be pretty hard for any pakistani leader to say no. >> no. i hear you. there's also this question. do the saudis worry about the fact that the arab spring could come to them? >> absolutely. when the arab spring began king abdullah invested $30 billion in buying off the saudi population. that is a lot of money even for saudis. that tells me he and the other royals were worried it could happen to them and they responded in the best way they could. make sure everyone has got everything they want, try to buy everybody off. it worries them a lot. i think it is one of the reasons why they supported the military coup in egypt. they were the first within minutes to endorse the

and saudi arabia in addition to the money for the mosques sons preachers and sons literature and tries to promote its own very radical brand of islam that is totally foreign for the country of kurdistan and what you have is the battle between the indigenous and foreign islam and these two versions of wisdom a very very different. well i think what i was trying to mainly explain is that social manifestation of islam is different from one country to other you spoke about his stand in the mud to people but also if you're next you look next door to his because where you have more a gradient society says has to settle society you'll not find a big difference between the could his version of the spec version and in kazakhstan you have also in the mud the people that said to people so central asian understanding is quite different because it has it's all references all through the centuries this what i'm saying to say thing it is now a time i may be through your going ization create a legal framework for islamic countries to be able to protect that version of islam that indigenous traditional

and drive south into saudi arabia. that's where some 40% of the world's oil production comes out of if they drive into saudi arabia, that oil wealth there, that oil power there, that's a big deal. remember, saudi arabia is the center of global. islam obviously is the site of mecca. >> obviously it prompted at least, according to reports, the united emirates, team up and bomb suspected isis positions in syria. obviously if brought together, groups that wouldn't normally be doing things together, can they stop this? or do we really have to go into -- >> i think, number one, we have go after their money, absolutely. that's complex. we can do it. look at turkey and qatar. we supplied them with $16 billion of arms. qatar has been helping to finance ice is over the past few years. supposed u.s. ally. also, turk write. look, some of this oil black market that ice sis involved in comes through southern turkey. turk write is a nato ally. let's put pressure on them. let's form a coalition in the region. look, isis has big plans.

there is no figure in saudi arabia like that. quos basically a status power that wants everything to be quiet. iran is dedicated to overturning the regional order. extra point is very important. i was trying to understand the misconception of friends and enemies. panel recently that put out a monograph on for enemies -- frenemies. arabia areike saudi punching with their resources in the region. it's not only the security threats that they pose in terms of types of actors. cutting that all should be part of our discussion. it's one of the tools the bush administration did a good job at. the treasury is cutting off those financial networks completely. that's the centerpiece of the struggle is to hit it where it hurts. it involves strategic engagement . we will work with the pragmatist in saudi arabia who have said we have a problem, were going after al qaeda.

egypt, saudi arabia. >> we've promised the government of saudi arabia and for that matter bahrain somee most repressive governments and dictatorships in all the world for years and years and years, and now saudi arabia is mad at us because this time we didn't do exactly what they said? saudi arabia is doing some of the funding of this, mr. ambassador, with great respect and you know it. >> yeah. no. i mean, look. saudi arabia would tell you and with a certain amount of truth, i think, that the problem the islamic state is one of the united states's own making in the sense that saudi arabia urged u.s. action in syria a long time ago to prevent exactly what we're seeing today. >> and the u.s. congress said no. it's starting to feel like israel and palestinian territory. we could back this up to the united states going to war for reasons unknown in iraq if we wanted to. you can back this up as far as you want, but here's where we are today. and what do we do tomorrow? and how do we keep from inflaming things in that region? how do we keep from more american treasure and lives from being l

. >>> saudi arabia is warning the united states and europe tonight that terrorist groups will attackthe west within months. the warning comes from saudi arabia's king abdalla, who says the only way to stop an attack is with collective power and speed from the international community. his comments come, as isis continues to seize land in syria and iraq. saudi arabia has backed the rebels in the syrian civil war, as those rebels try to overthrow syrian dictator assad. >>> isis was allied with al- qaeda until the two recently broke. many experts say that isis is more brutal and more dangerous than al-qaeda and that force is the only way to deal with this hard core group, while others are calling for a much more measured approach to this very complicated region. >> right now, isis controls more territories and controls more people and more money and more guns than any other major terrorist organization has ever done. >> reporter: as isis, a terrorist group born out of the war in iraq has grown, brutality and revel in brutality more than any other sunni insurgent groups. despite territori

does that strengthen liberalism in saudi arabia or give hope to democratic dissidents? or does it cut the rug from under them and keep in power these dictators which only help foster instability and radicalism in the societies. >> we have another question -- take the microphone. >> we were talking about the spiritual and moral failure that we can control in democracies about the media in particular. one thing nobody wants to hear about, i do not really even want to mention it, among the iranian american community, we have a spiritual-moral failure. sometimes it is real, sometimes it is manipulated. particularly under the guise of the national iranian american council. all the people who had to leave the country because of a lack of freedom are now being sold this association that the best thing that we can do for our homeland is to not support sanctions, to not talk about human rights, to not talk about political prisoners. it is all a game and it is all meant to create war and bring suffering to the iranian people. when we talk about moral and spiritual failure, we as

fierce opposition to iran and close cozying up to saudi arabia, whether it is president obama, clintonthe bushes, well known for that. i mean, this is after 9/11, all hijackersks of the were saudi. the u.s. investigations all showed money had come from private donors in saudi arabia and the gulf, but they always ignore this. and i think it is one of the reasons that al qaeda survived in its ideology, its ideas and so forth have been transferred into isis. it is extraordinary have this war of terror, hundreds of billions of dollars, joins of dollars spent by the u.s. and other governments -- trillions of dollars spent by the u.s. government and other governments, that years later, in al qaeda-type organization, worse in many ways, has taken over a great chunk of the middle east. this is a tremendous failure. very little attention has been given to it. >> patrick cockburn could you give us a sense of what your prognosis is for syria and iraq? you outlined it in your august 10 piece. mean, isis is very strong. it is not going to evaporate. it is not necessarily even going to get weaker. i

so sense the revolutions of 2011, the saudi arabia state has increased the perks you get for bogue a citizen. they have free health care, free education, low interest on housing. it is good to be a saudi arabian in some ways. and kuwait as well which is an oil imerate in the gulf. they gave each person $2500 in 2011 to keep them quite. you could get a nice home theater system so he was saying you could have a revolution or you could have a home theater. so far the the people went for the home theater and other perks and quited down. whether they are only quite on the service and bubbling underneath we don't know. and if you asked is egypt on the verge of the explosion they would have said no. i have been in egypt and knew it was but it wasn't common wisdom. things could thank a lot in sod saudi arabia. >> are the radical isis group young people? >> the question is are the radical people from isis young people. ... >> they felt that the islamic state was from their aspiration. hint these groups would grab desert lake areas with the relatively low population. so they loom large in the c