. >> if there's any one point arising out of those earlier interactions, it's dinner at must sayerman's on the 15th of september, 1994, which had been arranged by gus and jillian fisher. first of all, do you remember anything about that? >> i remember that such a dinner took place. i don't remember a great deal about it, frankly. but you -- i've seen this account. >> there's an account, so we do know its source from mr. neil, full disclosure. in the bundle we've put together for you, it's pages 31 and 32. >> yeah. >> mr. fisher is described as rupert's senior man in london. is that right or not? this is september, 1994. >> i think so. i think he -- i remember him being there for -- i think for a reasonably short time, actually. but i certainly remember him, yeah. >> mr. neil says that he had been lobbying the labor party on news international's behalf onnish issue as cross media ownership and sky tv's control of satellite scrambling systems. did you know about that? >> i don't recall specifically being told about it, but i had known what that position was certainly on media ownership. a