schaffner. preventivefessor of medicine as vanderbilt university school of medicine. guest: good to be with you. host: i want to begin with some news for the president -- from the president. andsenate health education pension committee hearing, anthony fauci said he had concerns about schools reopening potentially too soon. today, the president had this reaction. trump -- to make, donald trump: it is not an acceptable answer. the only thing that would be acceptable is professors, teachers, etc. of a certain age. i think they have to be careful. because this is a disease that attacks age, that attacks health. if you have a heart problem, diabetes, if you are of a certain age, it certainly is much more dangerous. but with the young children and students, just take a look at the statistics. dr. schaffner, is the president right? guest: this is a really widely debated issue. it is correct that the young children and up to young adults are statistically not very affected by this virus at all for reas

schaffner. i have just one main question. have they been calculating the negative effects of our response such as people missing their medical care appointments, blood thinner checkups, those who normally go to the doctor the hospital and get out in public? i have just witnessed a few cases of people actually having serious medical complications that would not have happened had they seen their doctor with a regular appointment or how they not been afraid to go into the hospital. >> host: what is your background by the way? >> physical therapist, i have been working in home health and i'm now and i hospital in a rural town, we have no cases at presence they've only had one here. they do have award blocked off and had to reduce the size of the treatment facility. thanks for the question. >> guest: thank you for your question, william. thank you for working in healthcare and doing what you do to help rehabilitate people from illness. that is very, very important. i share i your concern, it is one of the reasons clearly beyond th

schaffner, i want to start with you. this is no longer a debate about if the united states and states are going to open up. they are. more and more every day. the question is, how at this point. how do you assess that? >> well, john, you're exactly correct. it's no longer a matter of if, it's whether and how soon -- how soon and how. this is a little like a tightrope walker. you're walking across the tightrope holding that big pole trying to balance the medical side with the cultural and financial side. incidentally, those tightrope walkers walk very slowly. i think that's the way we need to go. we need to maintain social distancing activities while we're slowly opening up and seeing how things work. because dr. fauci is exactly right. the virus is out there ready to be transmitted and if we go out and about and try to turn the clock back to what was the old normal, we will have more cases. so slowly and carefully, please. >> hmm, i hope people are heeding your warning. i'm not sure that this sort of haphazard piecemeal

schaffner, thank you so much, kaitlan collins, thank you as well. sanjay gupta, we'll get back to you in a few minutes. >>> now to the money lead. a senate hearing getting to the economic debate playing out in the country, in capitol hill and kitchens and living rooms around the country, the struggle of saving lives versus saving livelihoods and the delicate task of striking some sort of responsible balance. >> how many workers will die if we send people back to work without the protections they need, mr. secretary? >> mr. senator, we don't intend to send anybody back to work without the protections. >> how many workers should give their lives to increase the gdp by a thousand points? >> no lives, mr. senator, and i think your characterization is unfair. >> that was treasury secretary steve mnuchin defending the trump administration's attempt to push businesses to reopen, answering questions from democrat sherrod brown of ohio. mnuchin, along with fed chairman jerome powell testified earlier before the senate banking committee. i want to bring in cn

william schaffner back with us tonight. dr. schaffner, thank you. and based on what you heard from fauci and what you know about why they feel this, do you buy the accelerated confidence? >> well, chris, first, let me also extend my congratulations to anderson cooper. welcome wyatt morgan. as my father used to say, isn't life wonderful? >> it is today. >> that said, let's bet back to the hard reality here. i have my fingers crossed. you know it's like running the quarter mile. you want to run faster, but you have to run the whole quarter mile. you have to be assured that the vaccine is safe and is effective. i mean, you certainly don't want to put an unsafe or an ineffective vaccine out to the populous. so, it's in everyone's interest to make sure we dot all the i's, cross the t's, do it rapidly, but let's try to do it correctly all the way. >> you know tone gnu fauci. i know tony fauci. i have complete respect for what he says. how do they speed it up though? i don't get it. i don't get what happened here. he and his guys have been telling me don't

william schaffner, it's really great to have you both here. we appreciate your experience and expertise on this. thank you. >> thank you. >> my pleasure. >>> the numbers are completely unprecedented. more than 30 million americans filing jobless claims in the past 6 weeks. when will the economy be able to recover? we'll ask the experts next. you're live in the "cnn newsroom." for nearly 100 years, we've worked to provide you with the financial strength, stability, and online tools you need. and now it's no different. because helping you through this crisis is what we're made for. unlike ordinary wmemory supplementsr? neuriva has clinically proven ingredients that fuel 5 indicators of brain performance. memory, focus, accuracy, learning, and concentration. try neuriva for 30 days and see the difference. >>> no community has been spared from the unprecedented economic chaos caused by the coronavirus pandemic. in the past week, 3.8 million americans filed jobless claims. that means that in the past six weeks, a total of more than 30 million ameri

schaffner, you're a smart guy. fauci, eh, here's what he says about why we even need a vaccine or not. >> i feel about vaccines like i feel about tests. this is going to go away without a vaccine. it's going to go away, and it's -- we're not going to see it again. you may have some flair ups next year, but vefrmgleventually, itg to be gone. >> what to worry about? it's just going to go away, he says. like the flu goes away. except, we need a vaccine, every year, for that. and there's absolutely no basis in science for anything he just said. sohear, after the most-powerful man in the world just told them that? >> please. the coronavirus is not going away. it's here. there are many people who are not infected. it's very contagious. it loves going from person to person. we need to be careful, and we need to keep working hard on, both, therapies for when you get sick, as well as vaccines. in the meantime, what we can do, right now, to try to reduce the transmission of this virus, to -- to make sure it doesn't go from o

schaffner and neera tanden. so much to talk about. we're going obviously ask about this whistle-blower complaint that is rocking the white house. later tonight, we have a lot more planned for you including golden globe winner jeffrey wright stepping up to try to show tributes to our health care heroes. we have that later in the hour as well. i'm ari melber. you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. e got public clouds, and private clouds, and hybrid clouds- things can get a bit cloudy for you. but now, there's the dell technologies cloud, powered by vmware. a single hub for a consistent operating experience across all your clouds. that should clear things up. woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. the 3:40 mid-shift migraine medicine. introducing ubrelvy™. it's the migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere a migraine attacks without worrying if it's too late or where you happen to be. one dose of ubrelvy™ can quickly stop a migraine in its tracks within two hours. many had pain relief in one hour. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. few

schaffner. we've got to get it right.just have to make sure we have the effort behind the need and right now that's what i'm not seeing enough of. i definitely get your analogy as someone who fishes a lot but catches rarely. thank you very much, dr. schaffner. i wish you well. good health and good luck. thank you. and thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with d. lemon, the man, starts right now. there he is. >> don't i know how little you catch. i know from personal experience. you catch very little when you fish. >> first of all, listen -- >> it's the truth. >> you have seen pictures of what i've caught. you've eaten what i've caught. >> that's the thing. no, no, no, i've seen pictures of what you claim you caught. >> you have eaten what i caught. >> i've eaten what you claim.

william schaffner joining us now.here's a little bit of point of criticism that trump and pence should self-quarantine. i say no, they're too important. only have one of each of them, if there's any excuse to keep them vital and in loop of daily duties, i think we've got to defer to that for now. only got one president, doc. i'll give a pass on that. on the idea of not wearing masks, president had an excuse, i wore one backstage, he said, as if it's all a reality show. why does it matter if president is wearing a mask, messaging aside, medicine only. >> both. messaging is important. this is a big weekend. much of the country is opening up, pizza parlor owners, people who run nail salons, barbers and beauticians, grocery stores that have been open, no one should go into any of those establishments not wearing a mask. and personnel in those establishments should be wearing a mask when they deal with their clients. and the white house should be showing an example. this is very, very important. we need to protect our nati

so should we expect around the world william schaffner is professor of preventative medicine at vanderbilt university he joins us from nashville in the united states and welcome to do you expect more countries to be like having to deal with 2nd wave of infections. oh i'm afraid so this will be up and down up and down around the world including here in the united states however on rather skeptical that once we start to open up here in the us that there will be a reversion to lock down i think there will be a lot of resistance to locking us down once again it's difficult isn't it because. there is a political calculation isn't that the very is that the lives lost on the one hand against the money and lives disrupted on the other is it is it is not a purely political decision or does that is that some sort of actuarial chart where somebody says well a life is worth this much so we can afford to lose this money well i've seen a few of those estimates but i think principally it's a political and social and cultural issue each of these countries is different different governments different cultu

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william schaffner. doctor, thank you very much, and thank you for the quick tutorial, last night, after our segment, during the commercial, you sent me on a hunt today. that, what is the fair criticism of operation warp speed? and a lot of the krit scriticis read seems unfair, which is oh they're rushing the science. i have called people who are involved with it today and are knowledgeable with the process, who say that's not true. that the risk here, is that they are manufacturing what they'll need before the phases of testing are completed. not that the phases are going to be scientific, you know, insufficient. is that a fair assessment? >> that is perfect, chris. that's exactly what's happening. we're putting a bet on a horse, this vaccine, even before the horse has started to run. though, that's a silly analogy. but we think that this vaccine is going to work. that would be the presumption. and we're, already, going to start manufacturing it before -- before the trial is finished. if it works, then

schaffner, is defending the proposition.ople will hear what california is doing and will say, liberal lunacy, things are plateauing and going in the right direction in many parts of the country, we're reopening, we don't know about any wave in the fall, this is way too much, way too soon. what do you say? >> what i say to them is that actually the chancellor has articulated a very conservative position. he's taking into account the solid forecasts of all of us who are infectious disease doctors and in public health, that there will be a substantial surge of covid in the fall, and of course all of the issues that he's articulated, colleges across the country are thinking about right now, fretting about, trying to make their own decisions. it's true in my own university. i'm a member of one of several task forces that are addressing all the issues and more that chancellor white mentioned. we haven't made our decision yet. but it's not an easy decision. as with all of these things, i say there's no right, no wrong decision, onl

schaffner, thanks for being with me. of all, what is this effect we had not seen before but covid-19 is having potentially on children? >> well, you know, we thought children were kind of unaffected, but here comes a surprise from covid. we had this pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome, which causes rashes, abdominal pain, swollen lymph nodes, high fever, difficulty with oxygen, and it is a serious illness, as you have just reported. several children now have died of it, and we don't exactly know what the cause of it is. >> harris: doctor, we are looking at some odd pictures of what it does to a child's skin. it causes so much inflammation. tell me specifically what they suffered. >> well, they suffer this inflammatory rash, they can have conjunctivitis, or redeye, they can have swollen lymph glands, abdominal pain, probably because of swollen lymph glands in the abdomen, high fever, and sometimes a drop in blood pressure and difficulty getting enough oxygen. some children have had to have oxygen masks and such. >

schaffner said we can get out but we have to be sensible about it. are people going out and we're still keeping our medically vulnerable safe? are we going to take out to a small family picnic and a movie drive-in versus some massive party or the beach or a busy bar or movie theater? that is how we can really quickly resurge. >> dr. long, i apologize. i didn't mean to step on you there. we are still hearing about lack of ppe and other medical equipment from hospital staff. you mentioned is there a hospital capacity issue? i just wonder behind the scenes what is happening. i want you to listen to some of the front line workers and what they're telling lawmakers. >> we still lack adequate protective equipment in most hospitals across the country. a lot of us have personally went online and bought our own respirator masks because they weren't provided for us. trying to keep ourselves and our families and patients safe. >> dr. long, do you think america's medical system is prepared for potential outbreaks from a holiday weekend or a second wave? >> so, a

william schaffner. sanjay, the president obviously said good things about redfield tonight but we do know there's been tension building between he and the cdc for weeks. we get these guidelines. they are detailed. but this is what we needed weeks ago, right? and now we get them tonight. sources at the cdc are saying they were muzzled. that's their word. >> yeah. i mean i think that there's increasing evidence of that. and you know, erin, as someone who's been reporting on this for some time, i think it's gone back more than just the last few weeks. there were daily briefings, even telephone briefings from the cdc that all us reporters would listen to and get a lot of our initial information. i'm talking february into early march. there was the chief of respiratory diseases of the cdc, nancy ma son yea. she said at the end of february one time in one of these calls, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when this becomes a pandemic and affects the united states. and i tell you it was really after

william schaffner, and annie karni, who is sticking around. thank you, guys. >>> ahead, the late-night firing of the state department inspector general. democrats are demanding answers about how it happened and why it happened. i'll talk with senator chris coombs. and after president obama's thinly veiled criticism of the current administration, president trump comes out swinging. i have moderate to seve plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doct

schaffner said before you came on. he was pretty much singing the praises of wearing masks. wearing them when we are out and about. masks work, why don't the nurses association and the doctors and the government just mandate that everybody wear the mask and send everybody else to work? to work, butt back the mask on, go to work. guest: you bring up a good point. there are multiple factors that certainly need to be considered. the wearing of a mask is one source of control and prevention of the spread of covid-19, but then there is also physical distancing. of mask serves the purpose control, meaning if one were to have the virus and there is a potential to spread it in the absence of symptoms, then the mask would serve as a barrier to keep one from spreading the talking, if there is a cough, a sneeze, a spray that may result from that. there is also physical distancing. when we look at the typical setup of offices or factories, typically, there is not that distance we generally keep within ourselves and other individuals. so there is some complexities that come with reopenin

william schaffner, ron klain, chief of staff to two vice presidents. he oversaw the response of the ebola outbreak during the obama administration. and heather mcghee, a distinguished senior fellow nbc news analyst. good to see all of you. doctor, how do you apply what doctor fauci was saying about different regions having to do it different ways right now? >> public health is local, ari. you've got to know what's going on in your neighborhood. and basically, all neighborhoods ought to be moving very, very cautiously. you know, it is a new normal. we're not going back to the old normal. the coronavirus is with us. so all the social distancing recommendations need to be kept in mind. we ought to minute nice going out in groups, wear those masks when you're out in public. wash your hands a lot. don't congregate in large groups. we don't want to do that. we're not ready to do that anywhere because we need to keep this virus under control. >> but specifically, the strange thing about this is there is going to be a type of -- beyond all the hardship, there

william schaffner, thank you very much. we'll be looking forward to the hearing today. jim? >>> president trump insists the u.s. leads the world in testing for the coronavirus. numbers don't back that up. and now in wuhan, china, it is planning to test all 11 million residents, all 11 million, in ten days. is the u.s. really prevailing in testing? we're just moments away as well from the opening bell on wall street. the dow looks to open slightly higher this morning. investors will be watching what happens on capitol hill. this as house democrats work on a fourth stimulus bill. this is by pushback already from the white house and senate republicans. the bill could mirror or exceed the $2 trillion stimulus costs passed by lawmakers back in march. first up is this exquisite bowl of french onion dip. i'm going to start the bidding at $5. thank you, sir. looking for $6. $6 over there! do i hear 7? $7 in the front! $7 going once. going twice. sold to the onion lover in the front row! next up is lot number 17, a spinach and artichoke dip, beautifully set in a hollowed-out loaf of

william schaffner.it's good to have you, doc. >> hi, chris, good to be with you. >> the main headline of the cornell study is that even though a small percentage of students in pairs take the same course, pretty much like 60% of them, 6 out of 10, are going to reach each other within two steps. you start to get these multiplier effects of kids that are just going to find more and more ways to be in contact just through course load, let alone socializing. so, what do we do in term of sending our kids back to school, college? >> yes, that's a big question, isn't it? and every school is wrestling with that question as we go on. my own school is also. it has a number of task forces looking at all of these issues. and what that study told us is something in a very formal way is something that we already knew. a college is a semienclosed community with a lot of close interaction, all the way from dormitory living, if it's a residential school, to all of those classes, to all of that extracurricular work. and

schaffner. we've got to get it right. we just have to make sure we have the effort behind the need and right now that's what i'm not seeing enough of. i definitely get your analogy as someone who fishes a lot but catches rarely. thank you very much, dr. schaffner. i wish you well. good health and good luck. thank you. and thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with d. lemon, the man, starts right now. there he is. >> don't i know how little you catch. i know from personal experience. you catch very little when you fish. >> first of all, listen -- >> it's the truth. >> you have seen pictures of what i've caught. you've eaten what i've caught. >> that's the thing. no, no, no, i've seen pictures of what you claim you caught. >> you have eaten what i caught. >> i've eaten what you claim. but i've been with you and you have caught nothing. >> first of all, we caught fish when we were together. first of all, i wrecked my boat. i still took you fishing. and we caught a fish. i lost it at the boat which was good because we weren't

william schaffner. he's professor of preventive medicine at vanderbilt university in tennessee. him what he thought about trump's timeline. very about trump's timeline. ambitious, very optimistic and very ambitious, very optimistic and very unlikely. everything would have to workjust perfectly. and of course we know that that's not the history of vaccine development. sol history of vaccine development. so i think it's temperatures to overpromise and then under deliver. what do you think the timeline, the more realistic timeline, the more realistic timeline looks like this then? well perhaps sometime in 2021. probably to the middle or later pa rt probably to the middle or later part of the year. but if everything works out we will celebrate. but i think it's unlikely. unlikely but not impossible i think from what you're saying? not entirely impossible but you have to understand, every single step of the process must then work out perfectly without a glitch. and of course working with a biological product such as a vaccine it usually doesn't work that way. of course some people ar

william schaffner is an infectious disease specialist. >> there is no real indication, no evidence base the use of hydroxychloroquine as a preventative of covid-19. i think doctors ought not to be prescribing this medication to prescribing this medication to people across the country for this purpose. >> reporter: rick bright claims he was forced out of his job as the administration's top vaccine researcher because he was unwilling to pus unwilling to push hydroxychloroquine as a treatment. mr. trump has described it as a game changer. >> you believe you were retaliated against because you s ised concerns about hydroxychloroquine? i belive my last-ditch effort at protect americans from that drug was the final straw that drug was the final straw that they used and believed was essential to push me out. >> reporter: president trump said it was bright who authorized with his signature the emergency use of hydroxychloroquine. >> if he doesn't believe in it, why would he s sign it? >> reporter: but dr. anthony fauci has said science has not shown the drug definitively works. st the data are

william schaffner is professor of preventive medicine at vanderbilt university in tennesse.nk in tennesse. you so much forjoining us on bbc thank you so much forjoining us on bbc news. it's a pleasure to have you on the program. let me start by asking you how realistic is the, are the comments by president trump that we could have a vaccine most likely by the end of this year? very ambitious, very optimistic and very on likely. every thing would have to work just perfectly and on likely. every thing would have to workjust perfectly and of course we know that that's not the history of vaccine development. so, i thick it's dangerous to overpromise and then under deliver. what do you think the timeline, the more realistic timeline looks like for this then? perhaps sometimes in 2021, probably to the middle or later part of the year. but if everything works out we will celebrate. but i think it's unlikely. unlikely but not impossible i take from what you're saying? not entirely impossible but you have to understand, every single step of the process must then work out perfectly wi

william schaffner at vanderbilt university medical center, and a former official with the cdc.u for being back with me. you know, we look at these numbers, there is no way to do anything but think of the great grief that is out there. when we try to understand where the deaths are happening, we see 80% of them are happening to people who are 65 or older. what does that mean in terms of how to protect them from here? >> well, erin, i'm in deep mourning as a person. i'm in deep mourning as a clinician, and also has a person who works in public health. many of these deaths could have been prevented. but going forward, we want to prevent many, many more deaths, right? and for people aged 65 and older, they should please take heed of the guidelines, the recommendations, theed awarning remain home as much as possible. avoid crowds. if you go out, please wear a mask. do a lot of hand hygiene and obey that six-foot rule. be careful of yourselves. watch who you allow in your home. do it very judiciously. we want to keep this virus from approaching you, and in order to do that, we have t

this isn't a virus as william schaffner said last night that will fly in through your windows there arend because it is such a contagious virus, they may be more significant than you realize. so i know that it is easy to get more complacent, you hear about states reopening, you hear about the task force no longer, you know, at one point the discussion was being disbanded. this is -- the virus is still out there. you have to think about all your potential exposures. even if you're staying home, which is the right thing to do, think about other people that may be coming in and out of your house, even if they have no symptoms. could they be a source of spread, maintain physical distance, wipe surfaces. >> this next one about people living apart. 61-year-old woman living in new york city, who has a history of lung cancer, resulting in a lower -- she has copd, her husband is a civilian employee of the nypd. he moved out because they were concerned about the virus and that the hospital would be too overwhelmed if she got it. he can't stay gone until there is a vaccine. is there any other mile

william schaffner, how much is new york, in your view, used as a barometer you hear the governor talk about the drop in cases but the numbers are still terrifyingly high, the number of deaths at 299, the day before it was 289 and last week it was in the 300s. do you see signs of encouragement based on what new yorkers are experiencing and how it may be a bah rrometer for th rest of the country, especially the hot spots? >> i think the country has been listening to governor cuomo. he's been so articulate and forceful, promoting the fact that we're all working together on this and we need to protect each other. and he's doing this huge, now intervention, to try to disinfect the public transport system. borrowing some of the things they have been doing in the eastern countries, in asia, and this is unprecedented and it is a powerful commitment of municipal resources to try to flatten the curve even more. and indeed, bend it down. >> doctor, let's talk about this remedesivir, which has received the accelerated fda approval to be used as treatment on perhaps the most grave of conditions. e

schaffner. i wish you well. good health and good luck. thank you. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with dr. lemon, the man, starts right now. there he is. >> don't i know how little you catch. i know from personal experience. you catch very little when you fish. >> first of all, listen -- >> it's the truth. >> you have seen pictures of what i've caught. you've eaten what i've caught. >> that's the thing. no, no, no, i've seen pictures of what you claim you caught. >> you have eaten what i caught. >> i've eaten what you claim. i've been with you and you caught nothing. >> first of all, we caught fish when we were together. first of all, i wrecked my boat. i still took you fishing. we caught a fish. i lost it at the boat which was good because we weren't going to take it home, anyway. >> i got to tell you something. so, ingenuity, i have to show this, right? people have been coming up with things to do about macsks and ll that. vy a friend in boston. took up quilting. i'm going to do something different. i'm going to try something different. we took up quilting and made

william schaffner, an infectious disease expert and adviser to the centers for disease control and prevention, said -- "the nail has virtually been put in the coffin of hydroxychloroquinene." on monday, china warned it would take countermeasures in response to new visa rules imposed by the dedepartment of f homeland sece, which h will restrict entry y fr chinese journalists working for -- journalists to 90-day work visas. previously, chinese joururnaliss were regularlyly granted open-e-ended visas to the united states.. the united food and cocommercial workerers union, the country's largest meatpacking workers union, is condemning the reopening of 14 meatpacking plants under a recent executive order issued by president trump. the union is calling for cdc coronavirus safety guidelines to be made mandatory as at least 30 meatpacking workers have died of covid-19 and over 10,000 have been exposed to or infected by the coronavirus. many of them meatpacking workers are immigrants. itit is moving t to ease i nationwide l lockdown despite registering daily cases. lolong-distance e railway servis are

william schaffner there. john in florida. what do you think about all of this?r: goodi hope everyone is d blessed. i don't think the state or federal government has any say over church services. our first amendment, second amendment, and all 27 clearly state that the government does not have a say and the continued interruption of spiritual all houses of worship should open up for people that want to go and practice safe distancing and using disinfectant and all sorts of hand sanitizer. the denial of people's first amendment right and the right to worship his stopping your spirit from living, it's trying to kill them like they are trying to do with our speech. it's horrible, un-american, and it must come to an end. people will stand up and it will get crazy. the police are violating rights they took an oath to uphold. how can they do that? an extension from the corrupt governor not following the constitution. i don't care what judges say, you have the right to practice and worship god as you see fit and the government has no say whatsoever. host: dan from newark