schaffner will know this too. we always teach in medical ethics don't sort out the sinners. don't punish people who wind up sick. you're never quite sure did they not get a vaccine because one wasn't available to them or they had a family situation where they were just overwhelmed. it's tough sometimes for doctors to make the assessment of who's virtuous and who isn't. so i don't want rationing in the e.r., in the icu, by vaccination status. but what i would accept is if you are not vaccinated and that is leading you to die with less chance of rescue because you have other complicating conditions and someone else might do better, then i think vaccination status might be taken into account if it is predictive of outcome. >> listen, i don't think anyone expects someone to show up at a hospital and a doctor refuses to vaccinate them. what i have been saying is if you don't believe in it, then perhaps you should not yourself go to a hospital or expect treatment when you have not done what is right. the onus should be on you. if you think it's your freedom not to get a vaccine, t

william schaffner, thank you so much, we appreciate it. a quick programming note, join fareed zakaria for a glimpse of the post covid-19 world, we hope it comes soon, how will we work and live after the pandemic, starting tomorrow morning at 10:00. >>> california gavin newsom staring down a recall election. we've got live pictures coming in from los angeles, he's got big names coming out to help him. we'll talk to legendary director and activist rob reiner, he joins me next. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and you need it here. and here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean is now helping the places you go every day too. seek a commitment to clean. look for the ecolab science certified seal. this is how you imagine your dishwasher. but it may not be as clean as you think. built up grease and limescale could be hiding in your pipes. try finish dishwasher cleaner its dual action formula hygienically cleans hidden limescale and grease in your dishwasher. finish. clean dishwasher. clea

schaffner, it's focusing on the most vulnerable. this article is pointing out, it's doses for the general population, they say they're not appropriate at this stage in the pandemic. we should point out, too, this is consistent with what we've heard from the w.h.o., especially in the last several w weeks, as there's been more of a push and more discussion about booster shots in more developed countries around the world. this has been a consistent message from the w.h.o., that we need to handle the pandemic first amongst the unvaccinated. >> well, clearly, erica, that continues to be the major focus. let's get vaccine doses into people who are unvaccinated. and then we will see, both at the fda meeting, which is totally open to everyone, as well as to the cdc meeting, also open. we will see this discussion about how intensely these groups advocate the use of boosters, as we move down the ladder. >> dr. schaffner, i'm always conscious, because nearly every day, we are inundating our viewers with new information from this. by the way th

schaffner, thank you so much, appreciate your time.k cnn's elizabeth cohen who has more breaking news. the fda advisory board just voted to recommend a booster shot for some americans. tell us more. >> reporter: um, so the recommendation that they're looking at now is age-based. and so over a certain age people will be able to get boosters is what it's looking like. this is all just coming together. i think that if that's what they end up doing, if the recommendation is age-based, i think that is very much in keeping with what i have heard from sources, which is there's not a lot of data that says that boosting people who are younger is going to help. because those people probably would never end up in the hospital boosting people who are older makes more sense. that's what the israeli data said. the israeli data said people 60 and older who got boosted were less likely to end up in the hospital than people that age who did not get booster shots. so i think that an age-related rule is something that, you know, makes some sense here. >>

schaffner, tells us what goes into the cdc's decision about who gets a third shot, gets this booster >> well, today, geoff, is a day of discussion, data presentation, and looking at alternatives. so they're looking at how long the protection from the vaccines lasts. they're looking at it according to each manufacturer's vaccines. and the prevention against serious disease that requires hospitalizations as well as minor illnesses. so they're looking at all of that in addition to the safety side of the equation. are there any notable safety issues with giving a third dose. and quickly, there aren't. >> because the fda vote, the decision was nonbinding, is there a chance the cdc could say, thanks but no thanks, we're going to be making a recommendation independent of what the fda said? >> it's a two-stage process. the food and drug administration has to give us an emergency use authorization. they haven't done that, unless it's been in the last 15 minutes that i've been waiting to get on with you. because the cdc can't make recommendations for a vaccine that's not available. so the fda

william schaffner. one of the reasons for the confusion and for some skepticism about dr.nouncement is that a month ago president biden announced this -- >> the plan is for every adult to get a booster shot eight months after you got your second shot. pending approval from the food and drug administration, the cdc's committee of outside experts will be ready to start this booster program during the week of september 20. >> so biden was, in fact, pushing every adult to get a booster. every adult who had a pfizer shot. but that's not the case. do you understand how people are confused and maybe some people are even skeptical about whether or not the cdc is following the political operatives at the white house instead of the cdc advisory committee? >> well, sure, jake. actually, i think it's a work in progress, right? and we anticipate that, as we get more data, it may well be that the recommendations are expanded even further. and actually, i anticipate that on down the road. as you said, pfizer today will expect moderna to come along pretty soon and behind them j&j. so that

william schaffner, a professor at vanderbilt university medical center.et's take a step back and acknowledge the world that we're in. about 25, 26% of eligible adults in this country are not getting vaccinated. they are swaying in an array of misinformation and media. it's understandable how frustrated president biden seemed yesterday. it's understandable. it's not even the first time we've heard a politician express that. this is governor kay ivey of alabama when she said it's time to start blaming unvaccinated folks. it was actually the biden white house that took a different tone. this is a couple months ago. take a listen. >> well, i don't think our role is to place blame. >> is that a sign that perhaps the federal government should step in and issue mandates? and if not, are you putting the needs of unvaccinated people ahead of the needs of vaccinated people? >> i think the question here, one that's not the role of the federal government, that is the role that institutions, private-sector entities, and others may take. that certainly is appropriate.

schaffner said, because this is all part of the scientific community, and what is different this time is that it is happening in the plain view of the media. is this public debate about boost boosters, is that any way harmful? >> no, this is what we should be doing as scientists. science is never done in a vacuum. we need to be thinking about this together, and we need to be talking about this together, and this is what usually happens amongst the scientific community, and now it is playing out in the real world. it is really important that we remind the public that this is how we make decisions about vaccines, about science in general, and that this is a good thing. debate is a good thing, and it just means that we are going to be now going through the data and making decisions based on the science. >> dr. schaffner, the confusion though, i think it is coming at a difficult time, because by far the obstacle to getting the pandemic under control as the three of you know is getting those who are not inoculated at all to get the shots, and the mixed messaging could add to the unnecessar

first of all, william schaffner, professor of preventative medicine and infectious diseases. and also john, go and talk radio host and column is welcome to both gentlemen, william, i just mentioned, did this, the question about, is this a clash with the promise? is that the doctor makes when swearing to the hippocratic? i think it's a refusal of care or not. if you, if you say, i'm not going to treat you if you don't have a vaccine. well, she's obviously set out a standard in her practice and everybody knows about that. then all of our patients know and she's using, i'm sure, computer based telemedicine and she says phone medicine and consultation. so she has that deserted or her patients. however, if they require in person care, she'll have to refer than elsewhere. i can tell you for sure. here in my own medical center, the vanderbilt university medical center. we're not doing that. we're using good infection, control precautions, and hygiene masks feels to take care of all patients infected with coded and not vaccinated or not. we were treating all comers here safely and ca

they got a little security at hart, schaffner and marx. >> still leaves the rest of us right back wherea hope. >> new york 1912, heart of the men's clothing market. 60,000 vest makers, pressers and pants makers, tailors slapped in jail by the police. bailed out by a tough little labor lawyer named laguardia. >> you hear, we got a settlement, a 53-hour week. >> big present they gave us, ice in the winter. >> whatever you get, you have to fight for it. if i'm wrong, if my information is mistaken, please correct me which i will appreciate. thank you. >> something in the wind, something struggling to be born. baltimore, strike and sellout. rochester, sellout and heartbreak. >> the union is having a convention. nashville, tennessee. >> why nashville? the biggest locals are new york, chicago and baltimore. >> that's the reason. they are making complaints and so they are making it tough for us to get out there. >> so why nashville. why not alaska? >> beg, borrow, scrape the money together for train fare. >> all out for nashville. >> locals from new york, boston, rochester, cincinnati, baltimor

william schaffner and professor preventative medicine and talk radio host john, go into full flow there. sorry. again for interrupting thanks. chance. no problem. thank you very much. indeed. i do. okay, it's a quick intro bite. makes me the long when i would chose the wrong. why don't i just don't yes, to fill out the thing because the after an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves well the parts we choose to look for common ground in the, in the moon. the i hello and welcome the cross odd were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle. not long ago humour was the domain of social critique and a means for us to laugh at ourselves. and the comic was the person who had the guts and skill to say what all of us might have been thinking. this is no longer the case. it would seem. now humour is just another political weapon. and you know, it's not very funny. i, i cross, i can humorless humour. i'm joined by my guest at ro in new york. he is a syndicated political cartoonists and writer as well as the author of the stringer in los angeles. we have wrongful cone. he is a

william schaffner, a professor at vanderbilt university. appreciate having you on and getting your insight. notably you told my colleague jake tapper yesterday you were surprised by the initial rejection of the emergency use authorization for boosters for americans 16 and older. i'm curious to get your reaction now. are you surprised? >> the fda came back in the interval and then authorized the vaccine for everybody 65 and older. they did make a more conservative decision than i anticipated but this is an example of science out there and good hearted, well intentioned, smart people debating how to turn that science into public policy. and we saw it being made. now it goes to the cdc committee and it looks to me on the basis of early discussions that the fda and the cdc committee seem to be pretty much on the same page. >> yeah. doctor, i'm glad you mentioned that -- this process of science playing out because science as you well know can be a messy process and confusing for folks at home. for the average person that took the pfizer vaccine

william schaffner from vanderbilt medical university. grateful for your time today. have a 10-year-old so this news is important to me. when you hear what pfizer is saying based on its study, seas the same two-dose approach, a smaller dosage, a third of the dose because you're dealing with the younger children. any red flags or do you think this is on a clear path for emergency use authorization in a matter of weeks? >> well, john, you and many other parents have been looking forward to this. we've been looking forward to it. we've just seen the announcement. we haven't seen all the data, but let's assume that the data supports what's in the announcement and, yes, i would think that the food and drug administration would give an emergency use authorization for this vaccine to be used in 5 to 11-year-olds and we hope that the cdc would follow that with their own recommendations, and, yes, as your setup piece said maybe by halloween or shortly thereafter we could start vaccinating children 5 to 11. now, mind you, we still have many children 12 and older already approve

william schaffner from vanderbilt medical center. doctor, thank you for being here.ans. so did the white house get out ahead of the fda on this and could confusion about this booster rollout make people all the more hesitant? >> well, laura, i think there has been a little bit of confusion. the white house has sent out what you might call previews of coming attractions and they're coming pretty quickly, and we'll have to go through a normal process. the fda has to approve them and then the cdc's advisory committee has to give us the exact recommendations and they're likely to come one vaccine at a time. we all want this to be done very carefully with good data, so i think these boosters will be ready for, if you will, the big screen very soon. stay tuned. >> speaking of that, today moderna submitted data to get approval for a third booster dose for the vaccine. could it be a problem if americans that got moderna now can't get a booster shot on the timeline the white house had been hoping for? we're waiting for the big screen debut. >> there will be a little confusion

william schaffner says to date, we have required on a volunteer army, but particularly with the delta variant, an enemy is reinforced and we have to reinstitute a draft, and a draft with the war on covid and the enemy he is referring to is the virus, itself. joining us is correspondent mike memoli, and joining us at the correspondent desk is john allen and co-director for the center of children's hospital in texas dr. peter hotez and also, policy director dr. ka vita patel. and so i want to talk about the politics of it, and mike, you made the great point in president biden's speech, and you said that in laying out his covid plan and his vaccine mandate, he was tapping into the core assumption of the successful presidential campaign, and the loud extremes were dwarfed by the more silent majority and what struck the president's scolding tone, he was giving voice to the vaccinated majority. >> yeah, that is exactly right, geoff, because it is 24 hours since we began to get much more of the details of the president's new six-pronged approach to tackling covid and the delta variant, and y

a schaffner. walk us through the basics of this announcement from the fda.ho fall into that qualifying category have first which is how soon can they go get that third shot? >> well, let's wait until the end of the day today because as you say, garrett, cdc's advisory committee on immunization practices will be issuing its recommendations exactly how this authorization should be implemented and it is very, very broad from the fda and so we'll see what the cdc says. but actually on the west coast this evening some people could be lining up to get their boosters already. >> there's language in here that was interesting to me not just about people who are older than 65 or at severe risk of complications, but also this language about people who are in frequent institutional or occupational exposure to the covid virus. could this mean anybody from someone who works at a grocery store to members of congress that i cover in my other job? i mean, that feels incredibly broad and the opportunity for people to self-identify as someone who has, you know, career-based ex