and joining me is mary schiavo who is our aviation analyst expert.t is not unusual for bomb threats to be called in, but is this the sign of the times after the flights over the sinai? >> yes. and if you remember, there were united who had to shutdown operations for 39 minutes, because of the bomb threats calling in. it is ever present, but the trick is to find out which is a threat and which actually does have a device to bring down the plane. a and the threats are effective, because we know that the security is not foolproof in the united states. >> and with that statement from air france saying that everything was inspected and checked, it made me wonder, how do you do that kind of check, because it is extraordinarily dangerous give whaen we have learned about the flight over the sinai, and there was a bomb in presumably a piece of luggage and how do you get the people on the ground to search that baggage or the people if there is a potential bomb? >> believe it or not, that is one thing that the federal administration and aviation in airport airp

. >> mary schiavo is a secretary general for the united states transportation. she joins us now. mary, we have two planes now, one diverted to halifax, flight 55, the second we learned of the first diverted to salt lake city, air france flight 65. both air france, one from dulles 55 on its way to charles ethe gall airport if paris. 65 on its way to charles de gaulle landing safely in salt lake city. the other landing safely 55 in halifax. what do you make of this? >> well, unfortunately, we seen this before. a few years back there was a space where people were targeting senior airlines. there were several bomb threats called in on a single day. here it was targeting air france. it certainly does seem to be related to the horrible tragedy in france. but i am recalling, as an inspector general, we worked another attack on air france, which involved a cyber attack, which involved someone or people systemattically booking the seats on air france, so they would have a terrible financial loss as well. there are a lot of ways to attack an airline. air france has seen it before where it'

>> let's talk to former inspector general with the transportation department, mary schiavo.s thing is three miles down. one, can it be raised? and, two, if not, can they at least retrieve the bodies for these families? >> well, let's put it in perspective. the titanic rested at 12,500 feet on the ocean floor. this is lower than the titanic. the navy, actually the maritime command, navy has put them into a separate category of ships. they do have ships -- [ poor audio ] this is a very large ship. while the record recovery from the ocean floor is 17,000 feet, it's very difficult. in that case they didn't bring up a whole ship. they brought up parts. submersibles are able to go down look for the black box and human remains n terms of bringing up the whole ship, folks my age will remember when a russian sub sank. we had a mission to raise that. it eventually ended up in a james bond movie, it was so difficult and fantastic. my guess is that they'll search for what just nick said, human remains, and those all-important black boxes and get a good look to see if they have any clues

aviation analyst mary schiavo joins me now. mary, when you look at this just hours after the crash, the egyptian government declared there says no sign of trucerror here, nothing nefarious. how would they know that so far? >> well, usually they know because no one has taken credit or they haven't seen any obvious signs. in this case, it would have to be a bomb or a missile if it was a terrorist attack. the two threat factors typically introduced onto an aircraft. and they just don't have any information that occurred. i think they cannot rule it out at this point. they certainly can't rule out an on-board bomb at this point. they're saying it doesn't appear likely. >> this is a plane that had 56,000 hours of flight logged, and you look at what the russian aviation officials are saying today, and that is that they are saying definitively they don't know what caused it, but what they do know is that it broke apart in midair. how would you determine that, mary? >> well, because of the flight track -- you know, whenever i look at a

thank you very much, miguel. >>> "outfront" now, mary schiavo.heard that sound, just that split second of a sound. would that be enough? >> well, it's certainly not enough to, you know, conclusively determine what kind of bomb and where it could be placed, you know, how the plane came apart. but amazingly, in prior crashes, including some that i've worked on, that split second of a sound can be analyzed for so many different things, the length of the sound. that sound as compared with other known crash causes, such as twa 800 or a carrier in which the door came apart and then the frame came apart. what they do is compare the signature of that sound, the harmonics, the frequencies, and they take it apart line by line with the sound and compare it to other accidents. so it's possible to determine if it has the same sort of sound signature in harmonics and really can displace like the other crashes or bombings did. it's amazing what you can get out of it. >> would they be able to tell the magnitude of the explosion, you know, whether this was a five

cnn aviation analyst mary schiavo joins me now, former inspector for the u.s.artment of transportation, former inspector general. also with me cnn counterterrorism analyst phillip mudd who worked for the cia among other organizations. thanks to both of you for joining me. phil, i'll start with you. isis was quick to claim responsibility. the director of national clapper, said isis has an s aggressive chapter in the sinai peninsula. does isis have the capability of doing something like this? >> my guess is i doubt it. look, remember when we saw that airliner go down over ukraine a year, year and a half ago. you're talking about in that case russian equipment with the trained battery of people to take down an aircraft over 30,000 feet. this plane itself was over 30,000 in sinai. i don't know if a terrorist group that has the capability to do that. that is a serious piece of equipment with some people that had a lot of training. you can't just roll something out and take a plane like that down at that altitude if you're a terror group. >> so just to explain for ou

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don't fight for them and let me assure you, i will fight for >> ron: the end of life case of terry schiavo is at an anniversary here. >> santorum: i remember it like it was yesterday and jeb bush to his credit really fought hard because the family wanted to care for their daughter. they were perfectly willing to pay the expenses and do whatever was necessary to care for their daughter and someone who had moved on, her husband moved on and been remarried and moved on, didn't want that burden of having her there, and, you know, i took it as a -- this is something if we're taking someone's life, and that's what was going on, at least if you're doing a capital murder case, the supreme court has the right to review that case. you go through the state system and because if it's a murder case, it's usually a state court and you go to the state supreme court and they say, okay, he's guilty and then you take it to the federal court and the we're very, very cautious about ordering the taking of innocent human life, or taking the guilty human life, much less the taking of innocent human life. but in

. >> joining me now cnn aviation analyst mary schiavo.the official saying they'll look into weather, the jet company's ceo said he would be surprised to hear this would be because of pilot error. no distress calls. pilots were well seasoned. what kinds of questions would you be asking? >> statistically, if you look at the cause of accidents in this situation, your thoughts first go to something call control flight into terrain, often described to loss of pilot situational awareness or literally pilot disorientation. what that means is, when you're in bad weather -- and i think the weather at this airport was approaching the minimums, meaning kind of the weather gets as bad as it can get before you're not allowed to fly in. they were still able to go in. but what happens a pilot can get disoriented in this kind of weather and literally drop too low or let the altitude come down too levels where they shouldn't be, and they literally can do what's called a controlled flight into terrain, cfit. however, with one wing dipping, one would suspec

we have our aviation analysts, mary schiavo and david susie, also cnn contributor, michael weiss. david, i want to start with you with what's the big headline from you, i'd imagine that that noise heard in the last second will be where this investigation begins. >> the analysis of that noise, what it does is breaks down literally every frequency within the noise so they can use that to pattern previous notices, previous things that have happened and match that along. it's like a digital fingerprint of the noise itself. when we get that, i'll be anxious to find out if that indicates an explosion or if it was an abrupt fire which two different things. abrupt fire would indicate that it had broken up in flight, causing the rupture of the fuel tank and then the fire comes off of that. because of the fact that the, what i didn't hear, was that the cockpit voice recorders team p times aligned with the flight data recorder times which we had heard yesterday that that would happen. he didn't confirm that today. that would have been conclusive if that it was a explosion had they have h gon

"outfront" now, cia bob baer and mary schiavo and david susie. mary, let's start with how this crash could have happened. kwo this be terrorism? >> it could be terrorism. i wouldn't rule out terrorism or mechanical at this point. a missile seems unlikely but also could have been a bomb. pan am 103 comes to mind and that was plastic explosives and just a small amount. anything is on the table at this point. >> bob, the missile scenario being dismissed by many simply because the isis-linked groups would have been able to hit it at 31,000 plus feet. could a bomb have been possible? >> absolutely. it could have been put on the ground at sharm el-sheikh. they are very easy to put on and very destructive. as mary said, a very small amount of explosives can take this plane down, split it in half. >> and you're saying it could have been programmed at a certain altitude so once it hit this level, it exploded? >> exactly. barometric switches is old technology back to the '70s, how to blow up an airplane with these. very hard to detect. the security in shar

i want to bring in our panel now, joining me from new york is jonathan gillian, and mary schiavo as well. egyptian officials saying it's too soon to declare that this was a bomb, despite your opinion, investigators implying that there was some sort of bomb or explosion on-board. and the question of this noise at the end of that recording. still needs more investigation, according to to the official than we just heard from. so mary, does this fill in some blanks for you or does this simply open up more questions in your view? >> well, there was some important takeaways from the press conference, and yes, they're right to center in on this noise because deciphering the noise and the akousic fingerprints if you will of such a noise has been a task that investigators have faced in tw 800, the plane that exploded off of new york and was mechanical. pan am 103 which was a bomb, and several other flights. and so it's possible to analyze that, that takes a long time, not only do you have to carefully separate all the lines sounded out, then compare it with other cases from the past that you knew

let's bring in cnn aviation analyst and former inspector general of the d.o.t., mary schiavo.'t a joke. it's dangerous. blinding a pilot could have real consequences. is there any mitigation when it comes to doing something like this? >> for the pilot, there isn't much mitigation. there are glasses protective eye ware that you can get. the problem is, you can't fly with them throughout the whole flight. as you're coming in for a landing, first of all, you have to purchase the eye ware. you have to get them on and the simple solution is to enforce the law against the people who do it. the sentences are starting to get pretty stiff. i think the strongest one was handed out in south carolina three years and they mean business. you're going to go to jail for it. >> it's not just mischief. listen to this. >> i see the people involved right now. they're walking in and out of the building. hitting us right now. don't look, george. oh, yeah, you think this is a joke, huh? >> the guy, when that hits you in the eyes, it's a real problem for these pilots, i've had them say it to me, the

let's bring in maria schiavo. thank you for being on "new day" this morning. activity detected by u.s. satellites. what does this mean? >> it's a very important development, new announcement. it's very significant, because what they say, they saw basically a heat flash in the air in the area of the aircraft but they're also saying they did not see any signature of a heat missile or something ascending up to the plane, in other words, they just saw a big ball of explosive energy, some kind of heat signature but they did not see any trails suggesting something was going up to the sky. >> that is very telling. if there's just a heat flash without something external causing it, what would you say causes that internal heat flash? >> you're going back, i always like to look at other crashes i've worked on in the past. there are several that come to mine, for example, twa 800 where the center fuel tank exploded. in that case, the plane was blown into two or three debris fields as we have here. another where the wing came off and caused an explosion. the situations wh

mary schiavo joins us, department of transportation.much changes overnight in the past 24 hour, mary. this morning, we learned that the russian officials had essentially granted the entire fleet of a-321s, while they run some additional safety checks. they're looking at the plane. they're looking at technical, which is a far cry from what they were saying just days ago. while everyone else, based on uk and american intelligence is saying it's looking likely that this could have been a bomb. this is a major disconnect. >> well, it could be a major disconnect or could just be sensible. at this point, we don't have evidence of whether it's evidence of a bomb or mechanical failure or exactly what occurred here. i think that the fleet should be checked. and in particular, just so you can rule some things out. i mean, at this point, there's just no answers, grounding the fleet and checking the fleet, and most particularly, looking at the one plane that had the tail struck. and the plane, of course, went down. and ruling out that they did the

. >> mary schiavo, thank you. >>> new video from outside one of the six morgues that received bodiest flight 9268. earlier this morning, russian officials around there. we know more than 160 bodies have been taken from the crash site to cairo's morgues and some of the victims, their remains could be headed back to russia as soon as today. our ian lee is in cairo outside one of those morgues. he is learning much more. what do you have for us, ian? >> reporter: good morning. yes, we saw those russian officials just a while ago. they were going into the morgue. they were talking to egyptian officials and then they left. we know that there are 163 bodies now in cairo at six different morgues and we are outside one of the main morgues that has the majority of the bodies. really, right now, what officials are doing is they are trying to identify everyone that they can to reunite them with their loved ones. this isn't an easy process. they are going through dna testing because, as you can imagine, when a plan falls -- descends from the earth, over 30,000 feet, it is going to have a large im

mary schiavo, former inspector general of the u.s. department of transportation.ill this affect every single one of us in terms of airport security, not just overseas but worldwide? >> well, it will affect worldwide, and going back in history, after pan am 103, everyone knows about that because the plane was of course headed to the united states. but there was a second one, and after pan am 103, four groups took credit for the downing of that plane. then nine months later in september a second one went down but out of a different airport, pan am 103 was frankfurt and heathrow. the second was a french airliner out of africa. so the problem news for the world -- the aviation nations of the world is to figure out what they're gunning for next and who really of the groups that are taking credit was responsible for it. so it's a huge security problem, but it will have a chilling effect. people will be very jumpy for good reason. this is quite devastating. >> the uk came out strongly talking about an explosive device specifically. phil black is standing in london with m

and mary schiavo as well. great to have both of you and your expertise on this morning.et's start with the reports coming out of this russian news agency about some sounds that were detected in the cockpit. they are described as unexpected, nonstandard sounds. what do those mean to you? >> what that means is a big and most likely an explosive event was captured on the cockpit voice recording and this is something that they look for in many crashes. for example, in twa 800, the explosive sound they captured on the cockpit voice recording is all they had. the explosion tore way the leads from the instrument to the flight data recorder and so what the national transportation safety board was compared that explosive sound on the cockpit voice recorder with other crashes. like pan am 103 or united airlines 811 where a cargo door ripped off. they fond h they found harmonic signatures. >> even if there's an explosive sound it doesn't necessarily tell investigators what it came from and if it was a bomb or some sort of structural deficiency that blew the plane apart. >> that's a